DISCUSSION OF THE IDEAS OP CLAUDE BERNARD 213 



because it takes place in the domain of facts. But a 

 fact, even of the physical order, is nothing by itself. 

 It becomes something only when it passes into the state 

 of an intellectual fact, by traversing an intelligence the 

 imprint of which it receives. It is then related to another 

 fact, sometimes this and sometimes that, and thus are 

 born a certain number of conceptions or of theories, 

 which make more or less proselytes. There are certain 

 facts, or certain groups of facts, on which tradition, 

 habits of education and the general debility of intel- 

 hgences have set everyone in accord, and which are 

 considered as verities, as belonging to the foundations 

 of science, until the day when an investigator more bold 

 than others thinks of taking a look at them, and con- 

 tradicts them. Then they disappear, or are interpreted 

 differently, which overthrows the accepted theories. 



If the verities of the rear-guard are so subject to 

 caution, what must be the case with those of the advance 

 guard, those which are the recent conquests? For 

 these there is no rule and tradition; every person can 

 interpret them according to his liking. Thus, in a 

 discussion with Pasteur, Fremy had had on this subject 

 an idea of astonishing candor. He proposed to his 

 adversary that he would accept all his, Pasteur's, facts, 

 provided Pasteur would accept all his, Fremy's, inter- 

 pretations. This was to demand everything, for we do 

 not discuss facts, but their interpretations. Whence 

 it results that even a serious discussion between two good 

 minds has no chance of leading to anything, so long as it 

 remains in the domain of facts already acquired. It 

 is useful only when it leads the adversaries to investigate 

 and produce something new. If they both succeed, 

 they are both light, even when they are not in agree- 

 ment. If they do not venture, or if neither one reaches 

 any results, the discussion may amuse the gallery, 



