1827.] Third Report of the Emigration Committee. 575 



would contribute towards their removal. Political objects, for one cause, may 

 disincline them to do so. Mr. Wilson says 



" Q. 2674. You don't think the landlord will contribute towards the emigra- 

 tion of his tenantry, who cannot provide a check against their places being re- 

 occupied ? I think the remedy always remains with the proprietors ; at the same 

 time there is one great inducement held out to the proprietor not to check it. 



" 2675. What is that? It is the present system of elective franchise. 



" 2676. Will you state to the Committee the direct effect of that system? 

 Each gentleman looks for a particular weight in his county : at least many do ; 

 and his political weight in the county must depend upon the number of forty 

 shillings freeholders he has. If he looks to have his rents paid in comfort, and 

 his property in an improved state, he will not have such a number of forty shil- 

 lings freeholders ; if he looks to a political interest, he must have a great number 

 of forty shillings freeholders on his property." 



Mr. John Scott Vandeleur, doubts if any general disposition to contribute would 

 be found among the landlords. (Q. 3128). 



Mr. Leslie Foster concurs with the earlier witnesses, that under the existing 

 system the landlords of Ireland constantly receive rent beyond that which the land 

 is worth. (Q. 3153). He thinks, however, that the alarm is now so great, from 

 the excess of pauperism, that contributions for emigration might be expected from 

 the landlords. His evidence, however, in another place, shews that the obstacles 

 in the way of allowing proprietors to charge their estates for this purpose (where 

 it was not convenient to pay money down) would be almost insuperable. 



The accounts of Mr. Jerrard Strickland, and of Mr. Markham Marshall, upon 

 this point, are both important. Mr. Strickland says 



" Q. 3522. Are you of opinion that in case a proprietor, whose land falls out 

 of lease, and who has had an opportunity of getting rid, upon the principle you 

 describe, of his extra tenantry, that that proprietor will materially increase his 

 annual receipt of rents by the operation of such a change? At the present 

 moment, I believe he would lose rent. If merely the number of tenants that were 

 necessary for the cultivation of the land upon an improved principle were left 

 upon it, and all the rest were removed, in the first instance, the landlord would 

 lose rent. The small tenantry in Ireland pay more rent than any regular farmer 

 would pay ; and these pay it not out of the produce of the land, but out of the 

 produce of their labour in England. There is an unnatural rent paid to the land- 

 lords in the part of the country I am in, which is not derived from the produce of 

 the land ; and if those men were now removed, the landlord would lose rent. 



" 3523. Although that observation may be true in particular instances, it is 

 presumed that it does not apply generally $ Undoubtedly not, I speak merely as 

 far as my own knowledge goes. That certainly does exist over a great part of the 

 counties of Mayo, Roscommon, and Galway. 



" 3524. The Committee are to understand that in those counties it is almost 

 the universal habit of the poor class of labourers to migrate into England for the 

 purpose of obtaining wages during harvests ! It is ; and they bring from England 

 money to pay rent for land,/ar beyond the value of that land; and they actually 

 pay that rent. 



" 3525. Are the rents paid with punctuality? They are; those common 

 tenantry will pay to middle men 20s. 30s. and 40s. per acre, for the privilege of 

 building a cabin on the skirts of a bog, and cultivating the bog : themselves earning 

 the rent by their labour in England." 



Mr. Marshall follows. 



" Q. 4221. Do you not conceive that it is the well understood interest of 

 every proprietor whose estate is over peopled, in a pecuniary point of view, to 

 get rid of that surplus population, and let his ground in another manner than has 

 been usual in the south of Ireland? I think ultimately undoubtedly it is; though 

 many resident proprietors are desirous of having a considerable population on their 

 estates, in consequence of the cheapness of labour, and the competition, and con- 

 sequent high rent offered for land: a rent, which though never paid, if money is 

 required, is generally discharged by means of labour." 



The Irish witnesses are thus divided as to the question whether Ian downers 

 would contribute voluntarily to remove their tenantry ; and the weight of 



