130 



NOTES AND QUERIES. 



[2'^<i S. X. Auo. 18. '60. 



of History ; and that the subject is one \vhich is 

 acceptable to your readers, is clear from the num- 

 ber of correspondents who furnish you with obi- 

 tuaries of "old- old people." Stray Notes of 

 longevity may be of no earthly use to some per- 

 sons, but J. R. M. D. has scarcely authority for 

 saying they can be. " of no possible use to anyone" 



The notes of extended military life were sent 

 by me as curious bits of information long since 

 published and forgotten. I am glad to see them 

 in " N. & Q.," where they stand open to question 

 and examination ; and from whence they may be 

 taken by those interested in the subject as the 

 starting points of their inquiries. 



To correct mistakes is essentially the mission of 

 " N. & Q." Its motto and its weekly issue attest 

 the fact. To contend for the exclusion from its 

 pages of records of longevity, unless corroborated 

 by birth-registers and identification, is therefore 

 a little too exacting. My idea is, that the pub- 

 lished statements should first be given, so that 

 those whose researches are directed in that chan- 

 nel should investigate them in any way their in- 

 genuity may suggest ; and then follow it up by 

 giving the results, in confirmation or disproof, in 

 "N. &Q." 



J. E.. M. D. is not consistent when he states 

 that he has " serious doubts whether there is an 

 instance of any human being having completed his 

 hundredth year in modern times." Why in modern 

 times ? Why not in ancient too ? In the latter 

 case he certainly would have to satisfy his belief 

 with evidence less conclusive than that furnished 

 by birth-registers. In the interest of a matter so 

 important, I think it would be worth J. R. M. D.'s 

 while to put his " serious doubts " (which no one 

 else that I am aware of has ever broached) to the 

 test. As far as military centenarians are con- 

 cerned, the records of Chelsea and Kilmainham 

 Hospitals would place him in possession of un- 

 doubted evidence. 



From church or chapel registries we shall hardly 

 ever be able to prove a case of decided longevity; 

 for the simple reason that birth registries had no 

 existence thirty years ago. If any there be, the 

 instances are few and accidental. In past years 

 a baptismal register was the only national voucher 

 which pretended to determine, approximately, the 

 date of birth ; and if consulted now would often 

 prove deceptive, thousands not being baptized for 

 years after their birth. From such baptismal re- 

 cords as I have examined, I am prepared to say 

 that the search, even with reference to exalted 

 personages, would almost be hopeless. And then, 

 again, how few churches have records as far back 

 as 1613 ? If we are not to accept statements, 

 unless accompanied by written proof, much that 

 is depended upon as faithful at the present day 

 must be discredited. Direct testimony from the 

 mouth, in the absence of genuine written testi- 



mony, is the best conceivable evidence of any- 

 thing. Judges and statisticians receive it without 

 scruple ; and I think it would be unwise to nega- 

 tive records of longevity (published at the time, 

 and likely, if untrue, to be questioned at the place 

 of the centenarian's decease,) because a few in- 

 stances may be adduced to show that, in them- 

 selves, they bear the marks and incidents of fiction. 



The Irish and Scotch certainly seem to furnish 

 the greatest number of centenarians, and always 

 in the lower classes of society ; but it does not 

 seem to me because the English do not largely 

 figure in the list, that the Irish and Scotch are 

 less veritable than the English, or everi than 

 peers. Insurance office registers, no doubt, con- 

 tain miscellaneous lists of people ; but it is no 

 proof, that because no long-lived individuals occur 

 in those lists, the poor, who seldom join Insurance 

 Societies, do not live to be " old-old people." It 

 would indeed be curious to find in an insurance 

 list any very old people. The precaution is a 

 prudent one in those who insure their lives ; but 

 I caimot help thinking, that before they take the 

 step, they find a pin getting loose in the taberna- 

 cle, warning them of an end not many years dis- 

 tant. Philosophers, perhaps, could offer ample 

 reason why peers and the gentry give us no cen- 

 tenarians, although it would not be difficult to get 

 up a fair list of military officers who have lived 

 upwards of one hundred years. * 



The value of my Notes, " Military Centena- 

 rians," is well shown by J. R. M. D.'s remarks 

 on John Effingham. Suspicion he throws on a 

 record made more than a century ago, and since 

 repeated without question in the European Ma- 

 gazine. It should, however, be borne in mind 

 that soldiers were received into the army at al- 

 most any age up to the period of the French re- 

 volution of 1792. I could mention the names of 

 several soldiers who were enrolled in the service 

 after the age of fifty ; and although I do not care 

 to contend that the probabilities in John Effing- 

 ham's case are in favour of its truthfulness, yet I 

 can submit an instance from undoubted records 

 now lying before me, which may assist to dissipate a 

 little of the distrust with which J. R. M. D. has 

 invested the statement about old Effingham. 



Here it is, such as it is : — 



" Alexander Spence, a native of Glass, Aberdeen, en- 

 listed into the corps of military artificers in 1787, at the 

 age of 61 ! a period of life when men usually retire from 

 active employment, and prepare for the leap into the un- 

 known future. On the 19th November of that year, he 

 was made sergeant-major, and continued to hold that 

 grade for more than 21 years, till the 11th January, 

 1809. Here was a man in the ranks at the age of 83 ! at 

 which time he was actually expecting promotion; but, 

 disappointed in not receiving a commission from the 

 King, he fell rashly by his own hand. Had nature taken 

 its course, there was every probability, from his robust 

 health, of his living to a very great age." 



These particulars are taken from a large folio 



