90 



NOTES AND QUERIES. 



[No. 169. 



death ? Whether in the two following years he 

 appeared at all in the ring; and, if not, why not? 

 although in the succeeding 1790 he again threw 

 down the glaive in the " No. 644. The Arch- 

 bishop's Palace, Lambeth," being then set down as 

 " T. W. Turner;" reappearing in 1791 as " W. 

 Turner, of Maiden Lane, Covent Garden," with 

 " No. 494. King John's Palace, Eltham ;" " No. 

 .160. Sweakley, near Uxbridge." In the horizon 

 of art (strange to say, and yet to be explained !) 

 this luminary glows no more till 1808, when he 

 had "on the line" (?) several views of Fonthill, 

 as well as the "Tenth Plague of Egypt," pur- 

 chased of course by the proprietor of that princely 

 mansion, as it is found mentioned in Warner's Walks 

 near Bath to be that same year adorning the walls 

 of one of the saloons. J. H. A. 



ETTMOLOGICAIi TRACES OF THE SOCIAIj POSITION 

 OP OUR ANCESTORS. 



(Vol.vii., p. 13.) 



I was preparing to answer your correspondent 

 E. S. Taylor by a reference to the conversation 

 between Gurth and Wamba, Lmnhoe, chap, i., 

 when a friend promised to supply me with some 

 additional and fuller information. I copy from a 

 MS. note that he has placed in my hands : 



" Nee quidem temere contigisse piito quod animalia 

 viva nominibus Germanicae originis vocemus, quorum 

 tamen carnem in cibum paratam originis Gallicse 

 nominibus appellamus ; puta, — bovem, vaccam, vitu- 

 lum, ovem, porcum, aprum, feram, etc. (an ox, a cow, 

 a calf, a sheep, a hog, a boar, a deer, &c. ) ; sed carnem 

 bubulam, vitulinam, ovinam, porcinam, aprugnam, feri- 

 nam, etc. (beef, veal, mutton, pork, brawn, venison, &c.) 

 Sed hinc id ortum putaverim, quod Normanni milites 

 pascuis, caulis, haris, locisque quibus vivorum aninia- 

 lium cura agebatur, parcius se immiscuerunt (quse 

 itaque antiqua nomina retinuerunt) quam macellis, 

 culinis, mensis, epulis, ubi vel parabantur vel habe- 

 bantur cibi, qui itaque nova nomina ab illis sunt 

 adepti." — Preface to Dr. Wallis's Grammatica Linoua 

 AnglicancB, 1653, quoted by Winning, Comparative 

 Philology, p. 270. 



C. Forbes. 

 Temple. 



If your correspondent E. S. Taylor will refer 

 to the romance of Ivanhoe, he will find in the first 

 chapter a dialogue between Wamba the son of 

 Witless, and Gurth the son of Beowulph, wherein 

 the subject is fully discussed as to the change of 

 names consequent on the transmutation of live 

 stock, under the charge of Saxon herdsmen, into 

 materials for satisfying the heroic appetites of 

 their Norman rulers. It would be interesting to 

 know the source from whence Sir Walter Scott 

 derived his ideas on this subject : whether from 



some previous writer, or " some odd corner of the 

 brain." A. R. X. 



Paisley. 



See Trench On Study of Words (3rd edit.), 

 p. 65. P. J. F. Gantiuuon, B.A. 



Mr. Taylor will find in Pegge's Anonymiana, 

 Cent. i. 38., and Cent vii. 95., allusion to what 

 he inquires after. Thos. Lawrence. 



goldsmiths year-marks. 

 (Vol. vi., p. 604.) 



In answer to Mr. Livett's Query, as to the 

 marks or letters employed by the Goldsmiths' 

 Company to denote the year in which the plate 

 was " hall-marked," I subjoin a list of such as I 

 am acquainted with, and which might with a little 

 trouble be traced to an earlier period : I have also 

 added a few notes relating to the subject generally, 

 which may interest many of your readers. 



In the year 1596, the Roman capital A was 

 used ; in 1597, B ; and so on alphabetically for 

 twenty years, which would bring us to the letter 

 U, denoting the year 1615 : the alphabet finishing 

 every twenty years with the letter U or V. The 

 next year, 1616, commences with the Old English 

 letter it, and is continued for another twenty 

 years in the Old English capitals. In 1636 is 

 introduced another alphabet, called Court alpha- 

 bet. 



From 1656 to 1675 inclusive, Old English capitals. 

 1676 to 1695 „ Small Roman letters. 



1696 to 1715 „ The Court alphabet. 



1716 to 1735 „ Roman capitals. 



1736 to 1755 „ Small Roman letters. 



1756 to 1775 „ Old English capitals, 



1776 to 1795 „ Small Roman letters. 



1796 to 1815 „ Roman capitals. 



1816 to 1835 „ Small Roman letters. 



1836 to 1855 „ Old English capitals. 



The letter for the present year, 1853, being S). 



In this list it will appear difficult, at first sight, 

 in looking at a piece of plate to ascertain its age, 

 to determine whether it was manufactured be- 

 tween the years 1636 and 1655, or between 1696 

 and 1715, the Court hand being used in both 

 these cycles : but (as will presently be mentioned) 

 instead of the lion passant and leopard's head in 

 the former, we shall find the lion's head erased, and 

 Britannia, denoting the alteration of the standard 

 during the latter period. 



The standard of gold, when first introduced into 

 the coinage, was of 24 carats fine ; that Is, pure 

 gold. Subsequently, it was 23^ and half alloy ; 

 this, after an occasional debasement by Henry 

 VIII., was fixed at 22 carats fine and 2 carats 

 alloy by Charles I. ; and still continues so, being 



