Panel Discussion: Identity of "Organized Elements" 609 



did not find the large number of particles that he had expected to find after 

 reading the report by Claus and Nagy. Nevertheless, he did find a small 

 number of particles which, if found in terrestrial samples, he would have said 

 to be of biological origin. Two colleagues at the British Museum agreed that 

 these particular objects looked as if they might be of biological origin. 



Plans have been made to conduct more refined experiments on these organic 

 particles. Electron microprobe analysis. X-ray microanalysis, and electron 

 microscopy are being contemplated. Certain additional experiments have 

 already been performed, however. In addition to the examination of straight 

 crushed preparations, density separations were carried out with aqueous cad- 

 mium borotungstate solutions; this liquid was used instead of the organic 

 liquids used by Nagy et al. It was thought that the use of inorganic liquids 

 would eliminate some of the criticisms raised against these investigators, i.e.^ 

 that the "organized elements" were mere droplets of bituminous matter, dis- 

 solved and then precipitated from organic liquids. 



A fragment of the Orgueil meteorite was used, and its surface was scraped off 

 with sterilized instruments. The sample in water was then subjected to re- 

 peated and prolonged freezing and thawing in an attempt to break up the 

 mineral matrix and to disintegrate the stone. This process was partially suc- 

 cessful. The disintegrated material was then suspended in cadmium boro- 

 tungstate solution and centrifuged. Four fractions were obtained, one of 

 which sank in liquids of 2.4 density. In the three light fractions, representing 

 densities of below 1.6, equal to 1.6, and between 1.6 and 2.4, a number of the 

 Type I "organized elements" of Claus and Nagy were found. In these density 

 range fractions, furthermore, there were also other objects, which resembled 

 collapsed spore membranes. Finally, two unusual forms were found in the 

 lightest fraction. Each of these objects consisted of a hollow tube, approxi- 

 mately 25/i long and X^in wide. The tubes contained an infilling •'^4m wide, 

 that had a refractive index different from the tube walls and quite different 

 from the Canada balsam in which these objects were mounted. The fillings 

 were probably air bubbles. One end of each of these tubes blended smoothly 

 into what looked like a torn piece of membrane, approximately lO^i wide. The 

 overall appearance of these forms, the tubes and the torn membranes together, 

 approximated a mushroom shape. These forms had been associated with the 

 meteorite matrix; the sterile procedures used suggested that they were not con- 

 taminations acquired during the study, but were part of the Orgueil meteorite. 

 The forms reminded Ross somewhat of the fossil hystrichospheres that Papp 

 had described earlier during the sessions. They might be parts torn from such 

 an organism. He concluded they were of biogenical origin. Claus and Nagy 

 had shown that the objects they found take up biological stains and resist 

 acids. These crude tests suggested that they consisted of carbon compounds. 

 All this evidence, he believed, adds up to a strong indication, but not proof, 

 that there are indigenous remains of living organisms in the Orgueil meteorite. 



H. C. Urey: He expressed the opinion that Ross's findings were quite im- 

 pressive. He thought, however, that one might still wonder about what hap- 

 pens to living matter when it is fossilized for four and a half billion years; also, 

 what would the very earliest forms of life look like? He stated that it would be 



