Panel Discussion: Identity of "Organized Elements" 613 



the discussant had ah-eady seen in a preprint. Staplin found, after palynologi- 

 cal processing of the sample, a group of micro-objects in the fmal residue. In 

 his judgment, these were the closest in affinities to a hystrichosphere-leiosphere 

 assemblage. Among the objects, he also found some chrysophytes. 



Now, continued Tasch, these three observations, in addition to those of 

 Claus, all seemed to be consistent. 



Tasch suggested that to advance this discussion the problem of contamina- 

 tions be bypassed and the objects found in the meteorites be accepted as in- 

 digenous. What would then follow? Pelagic protists closely resembling 

 terrestrial types must have lived on the parent body; once this is admitted, 

 then it follows that there were water bodies in which they lived. In addition, 

 there must also have been a supply of phosphorous, nitrogen, and other nutrient 

 substances. That, according to Tasch, would be as far as paleobiology can 

 take it. It would then be necessary for Urey, Bernal, and others to explain 

 where it is possible for such water bodies to exist. 



A. Papp {Department of Paleontology, University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria) : 

 Papp emphasized that the basic rule of the natural sciences is that an experi- 

 ment must be repeatable before one can accept the tindings as valid. Research 

 on the "organized elements" started only a short while ago, yet the experiments 

 had already been successfully repeated, and independently, by Ross in England, 

 Staplin in Canada, and Skuja in Sweden. Now the Anders group came up with 

 negative results. A most important cjuestion would be whether any one else 

 has found the "organized elements" besides Nagy et al; the answer to this is 

 yes. They were found in England, in Canada, in Sweden and, according to 

 Papp, one would venture to say they were also found in Chicago. 



There is then the question as to the differences in yield; the answer to this 

 would be that the greatest number of objects were found by those who did 

 most of the work. Papp illustrated this by pointing out that in two kilograms 

 of sedimentary rock one would find more microfossils than in only one gram of 

 rock. It would seem that the problem of differences regarding the number of 

 "organized elements" would be related to the relative amounts of time spent on 

 the problem by the different investigators. 



With respect to attempts to identify and to classify these forms, Papp con- 

 cluded that it was unimportant whether they look somewhat like dinoflagel- 

 lates or something else. They are something different, and it would be impos- 

 sible to include them in terrestrial systems. One could only compare them with 

 terrestrial forms and state that they resemble certain terrestrial species, and 

 even with this, one would be saying very much. 



In summary, Papp beUeved that the "organized elements" had been proven 

 to be organic and that their organized nature had been confirmed independently 

 in four countries. He was impressed that "organized elements" were not 

 identical to, but only resembled terrestrial organisms and, therefore, he con- 

 sidered that the question of their origin was closed. 



H. C. Urey: He and his associates in Lajolla could not find anything in their 

 sample of Orgueil. They then sent their samples to Nagy and the "organized 

 elements" were encircled on the slides and returned to them. They still could 

 not find one. Finally, however, a technician did find an "organized element." 



A. Papp: Six months previously one of Papp's colleagues, a mineralogist in 



