52 TRANSACTIONS OF THE ILLINOIS 



moved, denuding one section after another until you can scarcely find 

 any timber within a reasonable distance of the navigable streams or rivers. 

 These are the conditions, and I think there is apt to be as much exagger- 

 ation on one side as the other. Certainly there is as much danger, or 

 more, in exaggerating the actual supply, as there is in underestimating 

 the quantity you have to use hereafter. 



Mr. Riley — I made my remarks more especially with reference to 

 the effect of forests on climate. I do not deny that we are using immense 

 quantities of timber throughout the country, nor would I care to refute a 

 single fact that he has stated, but I will ask whether along these lines of 

 railroad the young forests are springing up all over if let alone; whether 

 the tree growth is stopped or not ? 



Mr. Greene — Nearly the whole of that land they take for cultivation, 

 and they are exhausting it as they have done the abandoned lands. 



Mr. Riley — If the land is treeless, has there been any change in 

 climate ? 



I only objected to the essay because it brought only one set of facts 

 forth, and I saw there was no one who was going to call attention to it. 

 While I do not deny that timber-raising will become profitable in years 

 to come, still I deny that there have been any effects of a broad enough 

 character to warrant us in believing that the denudation of our forests, as 

 it has gone on for the last two hundred years, has had one bit of effect on 

 the climate. If anything the climate has been improved in the Western 

 States, and I do not think it has gone worse in the Eastern States. There 

 is less water, probably, all over the country. Now along the line of rail- 

 roads ; how very narrow a portion of the country do these railroads 

 occupy after all. Where I have been in the Southern States, I have seen 

 the forests abundant, even on the lines of railroad. 



Mr. Flagg — The point, as I understand, is something like this. If I 

 understand the arguments of Mr. Meehan, which were made, I believe, as 

 against Mr. Hobbs (and it is, further, the argument of Mr. Draper of 

 Central Park), their arguments are directed to this point — that there is 

 just as much rain-fall now as there ever was. I respectfully submit that 

 that is not the question. The question is, whether the extremes are not 

 greater than they used to be ? 



Now there is a certain amount of cold that you may throw out of 

 consideration — that is, so long as it does not affect vegetable growth. 

 When you get below that, it will be important to look into it. I am per- 

 fectly willing to admit that the same causes that one hundred years ago 



