For October, l"2l 



745 



train themselves to be gardeners. That has worked <iut very, 

 satisfactorily in some instances. 



The apprenticeship seems to have gone by the board. If we 

 conld get inteIHgent men and interest them in gardening and give 

 them encouragement and help them along, in due time our As- 

 sociation ought to endorse such men by all means and encourage 

 them, because I have personal knowledge of quite a few men who 

 have obtained a high degree of efficiency in gardening by some 

 head gardener giving them his encouragement and letting them 

 have a chance. 



PRESIDENT CR.AIG: .-\rc there any further remarks? 



MR. WEEKS: I am glad the Secretary has seen fit to add 

 a postscript to his ads with regard to the Serivce Bureau, stating 

 that the National Associ.ttion of Gardeners is not by any means 

 a trade union organi;;ation. I am very glad that he has seen ht 

 to do that because I believe that if there is any one thing the gen- 

 eral employer abhors it is something that savors of trade union- 

 ism ; and I think it would be well for us, upon all occasions, to 

 emphasize this fact, that we are not a trade union ; we are an or- 

 ganized bodv of professional men. 



MR. McCULLOCH : There is one thing that I wish to bring 

 before the convention, because I think this is the place to thrash 

 it out. There is a little propaganda going around among the 

 members of this Association who have been disappointed in ob- 

 taining positions. This propaganda is becoming a little rampant. 

 I am told by one of the members from Southampton, who was 

 here yesterday ; and there are one or two in Oyster Bay from 

 whom I have heard personally, who brought forth the claim 

 that of those looking for a position, sometimes a few on the 

 inside get the first choice. The Oyster Bay Horticultural Society 

 stands solidly behind the National Association of Gardeners, but 

 I wanted to bring the fact before the convention that there are 

 some who belong to us as a body and as an Association, who are 

 knocking the Association along those lines. I believe if anything 

 of that kind is going on it ought to be known, brou.ght up and 

 discussed before this body. 



MR. STEWART: I received several letters from members 

 of our Association along these lines just spoken of by Mr. Mc- 

 Culloch, and I have been strongly urged to bring this matter 

 up. I don't know- much about it. but I know there is such a 

 feeling abroad and light ought to be thrown upon the workings 

 of the Association and the Service Bureau, and it ought to be 

 given as much publicity as possible. 



MR. GRAY: I think there is a good deal of reason for some 

 of this talk going around because I. personally, know one party 

 wdio wrote in about a position and never even received an answer 

 from the office. There w-ill be that sort of feeling on the part 

 of the members if they don't get replies to their letters. 



MR, WEEKS : May I ask whether this particular party was 

 in good standing with the national organization? Many men 

 who are not in good standing come along and ask the Association 

 for assistance, especially in limes such as these, when, there are 

 not very many jobs around. That is one thing which has to 

 be taken into consideration. Don't allow any fellow to knock. 

 Of course, we always find knockers. The thing to do is to sift 

 right down to the bottom and find out whether that man was 

 justified in knocking. 



MR. GR.W: I believe that in order to bring the matter out 

 fully, we ought to state specific cases. 



SECRET.\RY EBEL : The matter concerning the Oyster Bay 

 Society is not new. I had to go down there some years ago 

 to get things straightened out. At that time it developed that 

 one of the men who replied was not a member ; he was not a 

 gardener but a commercial man. I hap])ened to make the state- 

 ment that there was a Garden Club of Oyster Bay and he didn't 

 know they had a Garden Club there. 



There are a great many men who write to the office for po- 

 sitions, but their recommendations are such that we can't con- 

 scientiously give them positions so it places us in rather an 

 awkward position. The recommendation which we get is treated 

 confidentially, and we ask peoi)le when they answer to be very 

 frank because their c(mnnunication will be regarded as confi- 

 dential. We endeavor to be as fair as we can to every man. 



Mr. Stewart said there are men shifted from place to place. 

 Do you know of any particular instance? If so, I might clear 

 that up. 



MR. HE.-XD: No doubt in all of our societies there is what 

 we call a feeling such as has been described here. I have 

 several times heard it said that a certain few were getting po- 

 sitions. I have had young men come l)ack from the Association. 

 I would ask, "Well, did you get anything?' 



"No, There is no use going there. I can't get anything." 



1 .said, "You can't expect to get a position if there are no 

 positions to fill." 



1 have the pleasure of going to the Secretary's office every 

 time I come to New ^'ork, which is quite often, from Red Rank. 

 I wish to say positively there is not another office that I have 

 seen that is conducted under a better principle, and under better 



system, than the National .Association of Gardeners. You must 

 really appreciate that Mr. Ebel, our Secretary, is in position 

 to know a good deal more than we realize. The letters are 

 strictly confidential in regard to certain men's capabilities, char- 

 acter. You and I will never know about those things ; no one 

 will know but Mr. Ebel. Consequently, when a position is sent 

 to the National Association of Gardeners to be filled, Mr. Ebel 

 is responsible for the gardeners that he sends to that position. 

 Some rnen will come in and because they have not been offered 

 a position which they know somebody else has been sent to 

 they think that they are not taken care of. Mr. Ebel is using 

 his discretion and using his judgment. With the paper lying 

 in front of him, he knows what he is doing. I maintain that 

 Mr. Ebel is running this office up to date ; as far as I know 

 everything is strictly in order with what we want in that line. 

 I think when you sift this whole thing down you will find that 

 there is something behind these little technicalities which sound 

 very large on the outside and yet do not amount to a great deal. 



Regarding the improvement of the office as far as positions 

 that are being filled is concerned, I think it would be interesting 

 to know at this time how many positions have been filled. We 

 know the dues were raised for the purpose of supporting the 

 Bureau. I am a little bit surprised that Mr. Ebel didn t bring 

 that up, but it was an oversight no doubt on his part. He has 

 all the records there, and be could very soon give us that. This 

 is one thing that will help us a little to know just wdiat the 

 Bureau does and has done, and I want to say right now the 

 Bureau has done a great deal in a very short time, it takes 

 a long while to get employers' confidence' It takes a long while 

 to let them know- that we are working and particularly that we 

 are not a union; that we are not trying to put the wages up 

 against the employers' ideas of what they ought to pay. It 

 is a long journey, but Mr. Ebel worked hard along that line. 

 You can see any time you go and talk it over with him that 

 that is true. 



MR. MACKINTOSH: My experience is verv- much like Mr. 

 Head's. Every time I come to New York I run up to the office 

 of the Secretary, and I don't think that during tlie last thirteen 

 months I went into that office but what Mr. Ebel was busily 

 engaged with someone. He advised me that he doesn't get time 

 to attend to his paper or private business at all, but alw-ays 

 in the morning he is engaged with somebody, talking the .Asso- 

 ciation business over w-ith them. 



I wanted the thing talked over, because I thought Mr. Ebel 

 knew- more about it individually and collectively than I did, and 

 I wanted to know if this sentiment 1 had heard of a few having 

 the preference was correct. When a man joins an association, 

 this or any other association especially for what he is going to 

 get out of it and then applies for a job right awav, do vou think 

 he is entitled to it: When a man falls in arrears, and then 

 goes along until he finds he wants a job. and then pays up for 

 that reason, do you think he is entitled to the first oflfeV? Well, 

 these are some of the things I have talked over with some of 

 the men. and some of them have been in that position ; have 

 joined the Association when they never would have thought of 

 joining it if they hadn't thought they were going to get something 

 out of it. Then the paid members came into the office and 

 because they do not get jobs, they will go out and knock. I 

 don't care what an association secretary does, there is somebody 

 who will be knocking all the time. l' believe the National As- 

 sociation of Gardeners must be diplomatic. What you might 

 recommend for one man might not be all right for another. 



Now. another thing comes up w-ith all these other things, and 

 that is. how much do you respect this Association? Hovv much 

 do the gardeners in general respect it. What a little handful 

 of people are here representing the gardeners artnmd New- York. 

 You see enthusiastic men rightaway from the Middle West and 

 the Far West. The gardeners of New^ Jersey are conspicuous 

 by their absence. This is like a minister talking to an empty 

 church, but I am going to do my duty. We should have a better 

 meeting of gardeners. Is it an encoura.gement to the .-Vssocia- 

 tion? Is it an encouragement to the Committee? The gardeners 

 talk of raising the dues! My goodness alive, you spend enough 

 for little things that w-ould pay the dues to the .Association two 

 or three times over. 



MR. KIEFER: I came from Saugertics this nioniiiig to be 

 here with you. I lirst joined this .-Xssociation to get a job; I 

 came to get some knowledge rather than a job. however. I 

 think if a man will prove himself before the .gardeners he will 

 get his ow-n job. I think a man must come to this .Association 

 with the love of the profession in his heart, and the uplifting 

 of the gardeners to .get a position. That is my stand. 



MR. MICHIE: If this .Association cannot come here without 

 these presein grievances which take forever to straighten up, 

 a-!(l if those fellows stay behind and get somebody else to da 

 the talking for them, they will never get anywhere. It seems 

 a pitv that these fellows w-ho arc doing the knocking don't come 

 here themselves and present their own case. 



