HARDWOOD RECORD 



19 



wliole lumber for smaller work. The extra time 

 c'jusumed iu its manufacture more tliau eom- 

 peusates foi- the saving of lumber. Speaking of 

 jiggered chair stock, prices are too low on that ; 

 especially on seat anil other kinds of small work, 

 and were it not that the board, pattern and pen- 

 cil are in hand to get out the coarser work, it 

 would almost be belter to let that also go into 

 the wood pile. — W. H. 1'elslie. 



A.siiL.iND, Ky., Nov. 3. — Hardwood Ukcoku, 

 thicago ; We are not making any dimension 

 stock at present. We are glad to advise, how- 

 ever, that some time next year we will be, and 

 if an organization exists at that time, will be 

 glad to join. — Kevs-Fa.nnin Lumbek Compasv, 

 by Jas. K. Walker. 



UUV.VK t'IrV, MtCll., Nov. 3. — IlAltDWOOD Uec- 



oiiD. Chicago ; In regard to bringing a combina- 

 tion of people together to look into the matter 

 of dimension stock — 1 have spent a good many 

 years in convention work and have worked pretty 

 hard at it. too, and have learned thoroughly that 

 It is not the men with experience who get the 

 l-*enetit from these things, but those just starting 

 iu who have not had the experience. However, 

 these movements are good, providing they can 

 be worked out for the beuetit of all concerned, 

 and not simply for a few people. Just at this 

 writing I could not say whether we could have 

 a representative there at the time you speak of 

 or not, because this is a very busy month with 

 us. There is no association that can be a suc- 

 cess unless all its members are interested alike. 

 Where their interests are not alike and certain 

 factions are pulling in different directions, the 

 organization cannot be a success. Of course, the 

 meeting of wagon, furniture and chair manufac- 

 turers, such as you suggest, is a good thing, as 

 it affords an opportunity for them to talk all 

 matters over fully aud get a thorough under- 

 standing of each other's wants, as the lumber 

 manufacturer could almost always help the 

 wagon, furniture or chair manufacturer if he 

 only knew his requirements before the stock was 

 cut. If I could get away from home at the time 

 specified, would be glad to meet with you. Thank 

 you very much for calling our attention to this 

 matter. — Wm. H. White & Co., by Wni. H. 

 White. 



Makinette, Wis., Nov. 2. — Hakdwuud Keeuhd, 

 Chicago : Replying to your letter of the 1st inst., 

 iu regard to proposed consideration of prices for 

 hardwood dimension stock, would say that it 

 looks to us as though this meeting would till a 

 long-felt want. There seems to be enough new 

 people starting in the hardwood manufacturing 

 business every year to keep the dimension stock 

 people from running out of a supply of fresh 

 victims. We suppose the idea of this meeting 

 would be to establish some sort of basis of prices 

 which in the general opinion would be adequate 

 to cover the cost to the manufacturer with a 

 reasonable profit. This would be a great help 

 to manufacturers in making prices on this class 

 of stock, as they would make the attempt at 

 least to get somewhere near the list. 



We will not be represented at the meeting, as 

 we do not make any dimension stock. Whether 

 we make any or not depends upon prices. At 

 present we are like a great many others — the 

 offers made us do not look protitable. and we do 

 not know what prices to make in return because 

 we do not know what the market is. Would be 

 glad to have you advise us the result of the 

 meeting. — Sawyer-Goodman Company. 



New Palestine, Ind., Nov. 3. — Hardwood 

 Record, Chicago ; In reply to your request to 

 attend the meeting pf dimension stock manu- 

 facturers, cannot state just now whether or not 

 I will be able to attend. This line has been my 

 specialty for seven years or more, and 1 intend 

 to keep at it. In my opinion, the great trouble 

 with some manufacturers of dimension has been 

 not knowing the cost of same, and often deliver- 

 ing any old thing and expecting it to pass In- 

 spection. I never figure my products from waste 

 or cull logs, but on a basis of making stock of a 

 higher grade than firsts and seconds, and always 

 aim to deliver what I promise or specifications 

 call for. If manufacturers nouid follow these 

 last two rules, hardly think there would be so 

 much fault found in the manufacture of dimen- 

 sion stock. Will be on hand if possible. — Geo. 

 M. Waters. 



Detroit. Micu.. Nov. 6. — Hardwood Record. 

 Chicago ; Yours of the 4th is at hand. While 

 we are not inierosted in the manufacture of 

 dimension stock, we wMsh to call the attention 

 of the gentlemen who are interested in this 

 material not only to the advisability but the 

 absolute necessity of association in matters 

 of prices and g^rades before they will ever 

 obtain any •satisfactory results. You are 

 well aware that our industry — maple floor- 

 ing — has tried the "wide open" policy with 

 disastrous results for many years, and this 

 year we are getting a fair price for our ma- 

 terial. We wish to cong:ratulate you on your 

 undertaking in this matter. — Thomas Forman 

 Company. 



Louisville, Ky., Nov. 15. — Hardwood Rec- 



iuu>, Chicago: Inasmuch as an important factor 

 in the lumber bus.ness of many who make small 

 dimension in oak is tlie manufacture of car ma- 

 leriiil. and especially in that the demand for car 

 oak is brisk at the present time, making the mat- 

 ter of immediate importance, some attention 

 sliould be given, wlien an association is formed, 

 to establishing grades and specifications for car 

 oak. The need lor such specifications is impera- 

 tive. The task of promoting this work sliould 

 not be dithcult, because of the fact that pur- 

 chasers are comparatively fevi', so that a very 

 sliort list of people would have to be consulted 

 on the buying side. While the list of manufac- 

 turers of this material is rather long, the need 

 of some standard specifications is so strongly 

 felt in the trade that it should not require any 

 great effort to insure uniformity of action, or at 

 least conformity to any set of specifications that 

 may be devised. As the matter stands today, no 

 one feels safe in doing close figuring, because 

 everything depends on the personal opinion of 

 the inspector in each individual instance, and 

 while there are certain rules that have become 

 siirb by mutual consent and common usage, they 

 are indefinite and uncertain. There are recog- 

 nized, for "Xfiniple, several difl'erent grades of 

 car material which we might call n. li. c. and so 

 on. but the d.stinction between them is not 

 clearly defined, and sometimes it is found that 

 when a concern calls for a. they will accept b, 

 and quite frequently pass material that others 

 might consider c grade, wliile on the other hand, 

 ji Ini.ver might go out among the mills aud place 

 an order calling it c grade, while after it comes 



J. S. GARETSON, ST. LOUIS, MO., PROMI- 

 NENT IN THE WORK. 



to the inspector's eye he may prune it down to 

 the common rule of a. After a few experiences 

 with the uncertainties of inspection, the manvi- 

 facturer of car material naturally feels inclined 

 to figure everything on the basis of the liigher 

 grade when making the prices, so as to be safe, 

 while if he could have some reliable specifica- 

 tions to work from, and know exactly what he 

 was doing, he would frequently be able to make 

 closer prices. This of itself should make the 

 establishing of standard grades and specifica- 

 tions a matter of interest to the car factories, 

 since it would simplify matters between them 

 and the railroads for which they build cars, be- 

 cause it would give them a positive set of grades 

 to include in their specifications to act as a clear 

 guide to the inspection and receiving of lumber 

 on the part of the roads purchasing the cars. 

 Promulgating a set of grading rules and specifi- 

 cations is so important a matter that it sliould 

 be taken up at tlie first opportunity which will 

 be presented in this gathering of manufacturers 

 of dimension stock. --.I. Crow Taylor. 



Mr. Davis — Y'ou have lieard these letters 

 from twelve different states. Is there any 

 comment or suggestion on any one or all of 

 them? Would like some discussion on them. 



Mr. Ackley — There was one letter I saw- 

 on that list which I thought was better than 

 any of those read. Would like to hear the 

 one from Mr. Waters of New Palestine. Ind. 



Mr. Bacon read letter from Mr. Waters. 



Mr. Davis — There is one thing we might 

 discuss right here. Shall we take up car 

 stock along with the other dimension stock? 

 Will someone \'enture an opinion on tliat? Is 



it exactly in the same line with the other 

 kinds of stock? 



.Mr. Garetson — The best information a saw- 

 mill man can have is to know what his cus- 

 tomer wants. Wlien we find that out, we 

 usually make prices of lumber to suit the 

 customer. I am speaking now about this car 

 stock. When we get inquiries for car material 

 if we know the people and know what they 

 want, we quote them; but unless we know, 

 we don't. We manufacture between six and 

 seven million feet of car stock. We accumu- 

 late quite a lot of the smaller dimension 

 stock, but I notice the particular oak dimen- 

 sion we make is not mentioned in any of 

 these letters — that is agricultural implement 

 stock, such as plow handles, etc. I think they 

 all should be covered in this meeting. Car 

 stock is a very large line of its own, which 

 probably better be left out. Of course it Is 

 usually made from low grade logs. If we 

 can get an organization that would make the 

 consumer stand the loss incident to manufac- 

 turing some of this kind of stock, it will be 

 a great advantage all around. 



Mr. Kampf — I do not think this is the place 

 to discuss car stock. The larger manufac- 

 turers know more of this business than the 

 manufacturers of small material, and there 

 are hardly enough of them here to accomplish 

 much with this side of the matter. 



Mr. Davis — Let us get this matter out of 

 the way or in shape to do something with. I 

 would entertain motion to eliminate the car 

 stock discussion from this meeting. 

 Car stock was dropped by mutual consent. 

 Mr. Davis — Then the only two propositions 

 this meeting will discuss are the agricul- 

 tural implement and wagon stock, and the 

 furniture and chair stock. We have with us 

 Mr. Moffatt of Heywood Brothers & Wake- 

 Held, who may give us some information on 

 the uses and relative value he puts on that 

 line of stock. 



Mr. Moffatt — I think I prefer to wait until 

 the matter has been discussed and then pos- 

 sibly argue back our side of the matter. Un- 

 til that time I don't believe I care to say 

 anything. 



Mr. Davis — We are certainly the aggressors 

 and ought to state the case. I will ask Mr. 

 Eacon to start the discussion of the chair and 

 furniture stock business. 



Mr. Bacon — I was hoping Mr. Moffatt would 

 answer the statements set forth by Mr. 

 Waters in this letter of his. I think he very 

 clearly and forcibly sets forth one of the ele- 

 ments, or in fact all of them, which must be 

 considered in making this chair stock. The 

 great trouble seems to be that a man with a 

 $2 bill can get into this dimension business. 

 He has neither capital, mechanical knowledge 

 or business ability. He does not seem to 

 know there is any relation whatever between 

 the cost of logs and the price he gets for 

 his manufactured dimension product. He 

 thinks if this stuff is loaded upon a car and 

 shipped away, he must needs just keep up the 

 business for six months or so. and he will be 

 rich. I have lately seen some stock that was 

 worse than culls. Some of this stock had 

 worm holes in it; some of it had knots; some 

 of it was split; the man who gets that is 

 bound to throw it out. But he will sort enough 

 good out of it to answer some of his needs, 

 and will take advantage of that kind of a 

 shipment every time. I came in contact with 

 a condition in one of the largest manufac- 

 tories in the eastern country. They had placed 

 an order for IV^ inch quartered oak seat 

 stock, 21 inches long and 4 inches and up 

 in width. I asked him what he was paying 

 for that stock. He showed me a bunch of 

 invoices. The prices ranged from $42 to $65 — 

 or $23 difference between the cost of the very 

 same kind of stuff. I .said. "What kind of 



