20 



stock are you buying?" He said he was now 

 buying the $65 because it was all good. 

 "When those cars come in here." he said, "I 

 simply O K the invoice, because I know it 

 is right. We have taught him that he must 

 make his stock right, and then we have 

 somi- basis for contention if a claim for de- 

 grade is made." This will sooner or later 

 force the buyers of this slock to patronize 

 those who do make the stock right. There is 

 another thing. The very essence of business 

 south of the Ohio river depends upon maliing 

 some disposition of your low class product. 

 You cannot ship that in the form of lumber 

 because the freight rates are against you. 

 Therefore you must devise some means of 

 putting that stock into dimension that you 

 can get something out of. It must be man- 

 ufactured properly, in fact it must be right 

 In every respect. I believe, as the gentle- 

 man from New Palestine says, that condi- 

 tions would be verj- much improved if more 

 pains were taken to put this stutt in proper 

 form to place it on the market. Some dimen-' 

 sion stock looks to me as though it were 

 sawn with an ice saw. This kind of stock 

 always makes trouble. The manufacturing 

 end of the business must be looked after just 

 as closely as the other end of it. I have 

 given the matter very close attention. As I 

 said before, the verj' essence of ever>- lumber 

 proposition south of the Ohio depends upon 

 making some disposition of your low grade 

 product. If this isn't done, it won't be profit- 

 able. 



Mr. Davis — I would like to hear from the 

 representative of the Swann-Day Lumber 

 Company. • 



Mr. Clark— The Swann-Day Lumber Com- 

 pany, as far as dimension stock is concerned. 

 Is not immediately interested in anything 

 except oak and poplar for furniture stock and 

 similar uses, and I would be very glad to 

 hear from some of the older heads in the 

 business before venturing any predictions or 

 making any suggestions in this matter. We 

 are not interested in the implement stock to 

 any extent, nor in the wagon stock. I would 

 be more than glad to hear from those who 

 have had more experience than we have had 

 In these lines. 



Xfr. Garetson — We started in to make chair 

 stock and other similar dimension, in order 

 to work up our low-grade stock, and paid lit- 

 tle attention to the results. We have made 

 chair stock as low as $8 or $9 at our mills, 

 on a ten cent rate to St. Louis. The last few 

 years we have given the matter more atten- 

 tion, and have learned a good deal. We have 

 learned that If we get anything tor our stock 

 we must first make It right all the way 

 through, load It properly, etc. We never have 

 been able to get the prices we think we should 

 get. For Instance, we offer the chair men our 

 stock and And that half a dozen small mills 

 In our neighborhood are offering to put It in 

 for $1 or more a thou.<!and less than we can 

 possibly make It for. As long as this Is so. 

 we might as well burn it up as offer it to the 

 chair manufacturers. We prefer to make ag- 

 ricultural Implement stock. We find we can 

 get a fairly good price for the larger dimen- 

 sions of that In the better grades. As for 

 chair stock alone, about the only thing we 

 can make to advantage Is the long oak pieces. 

 We have had no experience In the seat busi- 

 ness, usually preferring to sell our quarter 

 sawed stock In boards. If we could arrange 

 to get the price for the material, according 

 to Its real value, I think that sawmill men 

 In general could afford to do this work to ad- 

 vantage. Within the last nine months we 

 have watched our output more closely than 

 ever, and have decided that unless we can get 

 better prices for considerable of this stock, 

 we will Increase our burner capacity and re- 

 duce our dimension output. As to uniform 



HARDWOOD RECORD 



grades on that stock, the man you send it to 

 has to have a piece absolutely free from de- 

 fects, even so far as fly specks are concerned. 



Mr. Ackley — I would like to make an objec- 

 tion to that statement. I have never allowed 

 a piece to be thrown out that I thought could 

 possibly be used. I think we have a good 

 deal of patience. Take one car for instance, 

 on which we spent four days in unloading. It 

 looked as though it had been loaded with a 

 pitchfork. [Laughter.] As for prices, if the 

 .«tock is manufactured right, there won't be 

 any question as to prices. The great question 

 is for us to get the stock we want. 



Mr. Garetson — I will say regarding prices. 

 particularly on such stock — that looked as 

 though a pitchfork had been used to load it — 

 that the consumer will always have on hand 

 four or five invoices or quotations that he is 

 .saving for you to figure against. [Laughter.] 

 In wagon stock it has been our experience 

 that we have to reduce good yard stock to 

 dimension, and when the inspector comes 

 along he is far more exacting than the man 

 who buys it tor a wholesale yard. For that 

 reason we prefer to make it into boards. 



Mr. Davi.s— We have not cut any chair 

 stock for a number of years. I lost money 

 on a tew carloads and then quit. I have cut 

 wagon stock, however. But I Mant to hear 

 about furniture stock. 



Mr. Ackley — We* find more people complain- 

 ing about the inspection than about the price. 

 The best argument we can give a man is to 

 show him his product after it is on the ground. 

 Lots ot these fellows don't see their stock 

 before it leaves their mills. Their men tell 

 them their stock is fine, first class in every 

 respect, and when they see some of it they 

 know different. 



Mr. Davis — I tliink rather, that it is the 

 price. Stock that goes into a chair shows 

 tour sides and has to be practically perfect. 

 My own stock was gotten out in good shape. 

 The stock was bundled nicely, well sawed, 

 equalized, and the inspection was good. The 

 highest this stock netted us was about $7.50 

 — I didn't think there was much money in 

 that, so quit. [Laugiiter.] Since '93 we Iiave 

 hanaled a good deal of wagon stock. In cut- 

 ting bolsters the contents approximates a 

 lxG-10. Any log that will cut bolsters will 

 cut very largely into firsts and seconds, and 

 a 1x6-10 would .go into this grade and stand 

 one standard defect, while a bolster will stand 

 no defect. This shows the price of bolsters 

 is not sufficient. You can't cut a tongue out 

 of a second class log. There is not a log 

 that goes into wagon stock that can't be cut 

 into quartered oak and bring as much as 

 wagon stock. Then the offal is absolutely a 

 cull In wagon stock. These people think they 

 are conferring a favor if they accept detective 

 stock from us at any price. If timber is cut 

 Into common quartered oak it would bring 

 $"10. I quit selling green stock in wagon ma- 

 terial. In 1898. We accumulated about live or 

 six hundred thousand feet of dry wagon stock 

 and sold at $45, and first and second quar- 

 tered white oak at $10. Since then the quar- 

 tered oak has risen until it's no trouble at all 

 to get from $60 to $70 for 1-Inch firsts and 

 seconds. I have never sold any tongues for 

 less than $60 since 1898. They are worth It. 

 Sometimes I have carried them for twelve, 

 fifteen and eighteen months, waiting for this 

 price. I could have sold my quartered oak 

 over and over at least four or five times In 

 those months. Since 1900 we cut some toiiifues 

 and figured that we were very foolish to cut 

 our own tongues. We still continue to buy 

 the tongues. There are a great many men 

 who have not figured It out and still continue 

 to cut the wagon stock. We are still will- 

 ing to buy It at the price the wagon com- 

 panies are paying. I don't know of a really 

 big. first class mill that Is cutting any wagon 



stock. It comes from the men that only have 

 a few thousand feet to cut, and who want 

 quick returns tor green stock. With the chair 

 stuff, as I said, we have had no experience 

 for eight years. 



Mr. Moffatt — We want to tell >ou that your 

 experience with that $7.50 stock was probably 

 before the war. I don't mean the civil war, 

 but the Spanish-American. Our stock in chair 

 dimensions, as we are buying it. averages 

 $35 and better to the mill men. Talk about 

 buying from the small manufacturer — we 

 might buy one car. and if it were not right 

 we certainly won't buy another: The stock 

 must be gotten out right .and we are always 

 willing to pay the price. It you get It up to 

 your price basis, we won't buy any dimension 

 stock at all — we'll buy our own lumber and 

 cut it ourselves. Now when we give a man 

 an order tor long and short stock, he will in- 

 variably insist upon sending in nearly all 

 short. When it comes to inspection, we aim 

 to take all the stock that will work up. If 

 the stock comes cut to even size and even 

 length, it's all we want. 



Mr. Ackley — It we can buy common lumber 

 at the same price we have to pay tor dimen- 

 sion, we will take the lumber. I w'ould rather 

 work it over into dimension stock than take 

 any that comes into our yard, and I will get 

 more out ot it. We can cut the lumber and 

 not waste fifteen percent. 



Mr. Waters — A carload ot oak squares 

 came from down in Mississippi. They were 

 all nice and clear, but the entire carload was 

 rejected, There were not ten percent In the 

 ear that would have held their square. The 

 whole bunch was rejected on that ground. 

 They were not made right. They could have 

 been made over, of course. I have sold stuff 

 myself, but I have never had any rejections 

 from the same people, worth speaking ot. I 

 have one firm to whom I have shipped over 

 eighty carloads, and have never had one re- 

 jection made. I load the different kinds of 

 stock separately, so that the manufacturer 

 knows what he is taking out. I give what is 

 thrown out by my men who are loading, my 

 personal inspection. I think if manufacturers 

 would pay more attention to what would pass 

 requirements, and deliver what they agree to, 

 there would not be half the trouble. I saw 

 green stock entirely. I band-saw it and sa'W 

 it large enough to allow tor shrinkage. I 

 saw a car of 3x3 squares shipped from down 

 south just as perfect on the outside as could 

 be. You cut them open and found them all 

 honey-combed. I find the best way in cutting 

 oak squares is to take them right from the 

 log and steam them. I steam all my dimen- 

 sion stock. I speak of white and red oak 

 and white ash, and so forth. 



Mr. Ackley — We had some squares that 

 came In three-quarter-Inch thick. They were 

 beautifully made. But in steaming they 

 swelled up to one and one-eighth inch thick. 

 Many ot them remained one inch thick. So 

 we h.ad to stop buying because of that feature 

 in the oak. 



Mr. Garetson--We manufacture every day 

 In the year, but find that our logs cut from 

 September to February dry better all around 

 than any others. When we cut In early sprlny 

 there Is a great deal ot trouble. They do al- 

 most everything that Is bad. 



Mr. Davis — I would like to hear from the 

 representative of the Crescent Handle Works. 



Mr. Smith— We are Just spectators here; 

 we manufacture hubs and spokes and han- 

 dles. 



Mr. Kampt — I think possibly we might get 

 to the Item of values, etc., now. 



Mr. Davis — I think we ought not to under- 

 take that until afternoon. Think we better 

 have a general discussion until 12:30, and then 

 appoint two committees, one on wagon and 

 Implement stock and one on furniture and 



