HARDWOOD RECORD 



21 



chair stock. If there is no objection, we 

 will continue the discussion, 



Mr. Clark — We cut everything into dimen- 

 sion from scoots up. We have a very good 

 market for our No. 1 common and better, and 

 our operation in dimension stock is confined 

 to the lower grades. Of course we attempt 

 and usually manage to keep on hand orders 

 calling for a sufBcient number of sizes of va- 

 rious lengths and widths that will cut up low 

 grade stock with comparatively little waste. 

 Our percentage of absolute waste is reduced 

 to a minimum. We cut everything 1x2-12 

 inches and up. We have never had any trouble 

 as far as rejecting stock is concerned. We 

 attempt to make it conform to the require- 

 ments of the customer. So far as prices are 

 concerned, our experience has been that there 

 is no fixed price. You take what you can get. 

 If the order looks good, take it. If it doesn't, 

 turn it down. [Laughter.] I suppose we don't 

 manufacture more than three or four million 

 feet a year, but w'e manage to keep a few 

 saws going most of the time. 



Mr. Mohrstadt — I am in the hub and spoke 

 business and the only thing we are interested 

 in is selling our trimmings from those, of 

 which we have quite a good many, and our 

 trouble has been in getting a satisfactory price 

 for the stock. We felt around to see what 

 we could get for it, but didn't think we were 

 justified. As to shrinkage, we find that in 

 our white oak it depends on the quality of 

 the timber. You take tough timber and it 

 will warp and shrink more than another kind 

 of piece. We have had very little experience 

 in chair stock, and didn't think prices would 

 justify us in making it. We get $12 a thou- 

 sand, St. Louis. 



Mr. Moffatt — We would like a list of ever.v- 

 body who sells for such prices. We could use 

 it. 



Mr. Davis — May we nut have an expression 

 of some sort from Mr. Defebaugh? 



Mr. Defenbaugh — My only interest is the in- 

 terest of all. Everything that will tend to 

 bring the brethren together would be of use 

 to me. because we want to get something out 

 of them in the way of advertising or subscrip- 

 tions. I never attend a meeting of this kind 

 that I don't get something of value, and I am 

 sure every man here has heard things that 

 have opened his eyes. I am glad to see the 

 buying element represented here also, 



Mr. Davis — I suggest getting some of the 

 other buyers of furniture stock here this after- 

 noon. We would like to have their expres- 

 sions as to what they need. I am very glad 

 to have Mr. Moffatt and Mr. Ackley here to 

 give us their side of the question. Would be 

 glad to hear from Mr. Groesbeck. 



Mr. Groesbeck — Our people operated at 

 Ludington. Mich., for a number of years, and 

 as far back as ten years ago quit dimension 

 stock business because there was no money in 

 it. We thought perhaps the dimension busi- 

 ness would help us out In our Kentucky oper- 

 ations, but after a trial, had to give that up. 

 We could do better to even sell our cull lum- 

 ber. There were as many prices as there 

 were buyers. I saw quotations made last 

 week at Grand Rapids for first and second 

 dimension oak at $26 a thousand. Eight or 

 ten cars of stock were sold on this basis. 

 Our people sat down upon that sort of thing, 

 and we stopped manufacturing nearly eight 

 months ago, 



Mr. Kampf — I got $19 at the mill, which is 

 located on a 16 cent rate to Chicago. 



Mr. Pratt — We have not attempted to get 

 out any dimension during the last year be- 

 cause we could not get the price, and were 

 not posted on the market. The offers made us 

 were not satisfactory, so vie burned it up or 

 gave it to the farmers. This Is a new Issue 

 with us; in the last year we went into the 



pattern wagon stock business, and — well, we 

 got a httle experience. [Laughter.] I suppose 

 $5,000 would represent it. We are attending 

 this convention for the purpose of associa- 

 tion with others, and I think we ought to 

 get together as some of the suggestions In 

 II.MIDWOOD REConn say — not necessarily tor the 

 purpose of raising prices, but for the purpose 

 of educating the small mill men, and people 

 like the Pi-att-Worthington Company who 

 want to get what the stock Is worth. I don't 

 suppose any sawmill man would deliberately 

 sell stock lower than the market if he knew 

 it, but the prices that the manufacturers offer 

 vary so mucli that it Is hard to determine 

 what they should be. 



Mr. Hoyt — We don't cut any chair stock, 

 but some wagon stock. We cut a good deal 

 for the New York market. Also tor this mar- 

 ket. The stock we cut for this market we 

 realize a pretty fair price for, yet it Is not 

 satisfactory. We get considerably better 

 prices than a good many, because we try to 

 make a pretty good grade of stock. This 

 must be done if a fair price is to be had. The 

 suggestions of some of the buyers here are 

 so good in regard to the grade, that I think 

 It is well to observe them. 



Mr. Davis — ^Do you, Mr. Moffatt, send out 

 regular printed specifications with your or- 

 ders? 



Mr. Moffatt — No. we do not; we give gen- 

 eral specifications, or go and see the man at 

 the mill. We can get better results by the 

 latter course. Certain defects we always over- 

 look — bright sap. for Instance. 



Mr. Davis — I will now entertain a motion 

 to appoint two committees, one on wagon 

 stock and one on furniture stock. I would 

 suggest that they report on the condition of 

 the trade; what they think it needs, as re- 

 gards standard sizes, prices and grades; and 

 the value of the material. I don't think we 

 can here establish a price that can be main- 

 tained and held to; we can only give expres- 

 sion to what we think It ought to be. No man 

 can independently fix such prices. We realize 

 that the people here and those they represent, 

 and even the whole districts that they repre- 

 sent, would cut a ver>- small figure if they 

 were all to stick entirely to the list of any 

 prices we might make. But we can say we 

 believe it is worth a certain thing, and if 

 somebody else has been getting a good deal 

 less for It, he will try to get nearer what 

 these people think it Is worth. On the other 

 hand conditions vary greatly. Mr. Waters, 

 who has been furnishing this stock for a long 

 time and whose product Is well known, will 

 be apt to get more money than a man who is 

 going to ship only two or three carloads. 

 Therefore I do not think a convention ought 

 to try to fix an arbitrary price. But I do be- 

 lieve that we should try to make the standard 

 of grades higher, and the prices reasonable, 

 and then all work as near as we can to that 

 particular basis, I hope If this meets the 

 view.s of the comm.ittees that they will keep 

 that end In view and try to base their recom- 

 mendations along those lines. 



Mr. Garetson — I move the committees be ap- 

 pointed as Mr. Davis suggests. Seconded and 

 carried. 



Mr. Davis — I appoint on the furniture and 

 chair stock committee, Messrs. Clark, Waters 

 and Bacon. On the wagon stock committee, 

 Messrs. Garetson, Kampf. Hoyt and Pratt. 

 Should like to have them report at the after- 

 noon session. 



A motion to adjourn until 2 p. m. then pre- 

 vailed. 



Afternoon Session. 



Mr. Davis — We are now ready to listen to 

 the report of the furniture stock committee. 



Mr. Bacon — I do not know as we have 

 any very detailed report to make. My idea 



In regard to this was to make a price on this 

 stock at some point where the rates from all 

 points are more nearly equalized. We could 

 take New York and make a price delivered 

 there and then as we figured east or west, 

 deduct or add 50 cents for every change of 

 one cent In the rate. Our rate to New York 

 is 35 cents, which would be about $17.50. It 

 we make a price on these different dimen- 

 sions — each width and length, then we would 

 deduct 50 cents a thousand from each of these 

 as we go west. We would more nearly equal- 

 ize the matter that way than any other — 

 Instead of trying to equalize the stumpage val- 

 ues. It is a matter of impossibility to try to 

 equalize them. It simplifies the matter to 

 make a delivered price at some given point 

 where we all know what the freight rate is — 

 New York, Philadelphia, etc. Then the price 

 will be higher or less according as the freight 

 rate is higher or less. In that way those who 

 are located in close proximity to certain mar- 

 kets will naturally ship into those markets. 

 The other is an inequality that is Impossible 

 to overcome. We must follow natural condi- 

 tions in shipping stock. We have not agreed 

 on any particular prices. I showed the mem- 

 bers of our committee the basis on which I 

 have been quoting, and receiving for this 

 stock, f. o. b. our mill. The.se prices mentioned 

 are simply arbitrary and based on what 

 we could get for the stock delivered on the 

 35 cent rate. 



I would like to hear from other gentlemen 

 as to whether these prices would meet their 

 views. Neither one of my committee appear 

 to have had enough experience to form any 

 criterion. That Is probably the experience of 

 about ninety percent of those who have es- 

 sayed to manufacture this dimension stock. 

 Most of us have been talking about what we 

 could get for it. I want to repeat what I said 

 this morning. Without seeming to favor the 

 users of this stock, after going through their 

 factories and becoming familiar with the uses 

 to which they put it, I agree with them to this 

 extent — that this stock must be made right. 

 If you make a good article in any business, 

 you can get a good price for it, but if you 

 make an article that there Is going to be some 

 complaint on, buyers will become wary and 

 your prices will be unsatisfactory. Therefore 

 we ought, first of all, to make this stock right. 

 It should be well manufactured, of uniform 

 width, thickness, length and grade. Those 

 are our Instructions, and we look to it very 

 closely and don't have much trouble. Bright 

 sap is considered no defect by any of the fur- 

 niture factories. If they want It without sap, 

 why charge them accordingly. In order to 

 get at this, we ought to have the experience 

 of some of those who have made and shipped 

 a quantity of this stock. Suppose Mr. Water's 

 rate to New York is 25 cents. Would quar- 

 tered dimension 1x1-16 inches long, at $37.50, 

 delivered In New York, on this rate, be profit- 

 able to him? 



Mr. Waters — I don't cut straight stock, so I 

 can't tell. 



Mr. Bacon — Take quartered 1x6 and wider, 

 16 to 30 Inches long, $5'2.5ii delivered in New 

 York. Would that be profitable to yoil? 

 Mr. Waters — Xo. 



Mr. Moffatt — The proportion of dimension 

 stock we buy in quartered oak Is very small. 

 The bulk of it comes from plain oak. We can 

 buy red oak 1 inch thick for $40 in Chicago. 

 In white oak we can buy it at $50, but our 

 lengths don't run as long as 30 Inches. They 

 run up to 23 inches. Plain oak stock can be 

 bought for $30 In Chicago. We pay about the 

 same price for the two kinds of stock. 



Mr. Waters — My stock is all plain sawed, ex- 

 cept a few orders that call for quartered, I 

 can't give you much Information on the short 

 dimension stock. 



