i8 



HARDWOOD RECORD 



stuff cost. I have devised a system whereby I 

 arrive at it closely. I have daily reports from 

 the foreman of eacli department, giving the labor 

 of each department, beginning at the logs cut 

 each day, of each kind of timber ; the cutting 

 department ; drying department ; amount of 

 veneer produced ; fuel, coal, supplies, etc., and I 

 have it divided into a number of different heads 

 for the month. For instance, I have "yard ex- 

 pense," "power," "cutting," "drying," "shipping," 

 "repairs," and also have the average cost of in- 

 surance, logs, lumber, etc. I also have at the 

 right-hand side of the page the different kinds of 

 woods that are used, and I can foot it up readily 

 at the end of the month. I then know just where 

 I stand, the amount of veneer I have, the kind, 

 etc. It is the best way I know of arriving at 

 cost. 



Discussion on Panels. 



Mr. Underwood : You will find that there is a 

 very great difference in the cost of manufactur- 

 ing panels. Those who manufacture their own 

 veneers can produce a panel for less than those 

 ■n-ho buy veneer at its highest price. The loca- 

 tion of plants is so different; some timber costs 

 fifty per cent more than others, and labor is ex- 

 pensive in certain sections. It is a pretty hard 

 thing to settle. One is satisfied with ten per 

 cent net : someone else wants more. As a rule 

 the fellows who have learned by bitter experi- 

 ence are the fellows that are getting a fair profit. 



Mr. Manyon : I would like to say that it 

 seems to me there is only one way to handle 

 that part ; I figure that the veneers cut in the 

 rough should be charged up to the panel depart- 

 ment for just what they would sell for on the 

 market. 



Mr. Sawyer : It seems to me there is no other 

 way to do business on business principles except 

 to have flat veneers charged to the panel de- 

 partment at their market price. Don't mix the 

 profits of one business with the other. If a man 

 makes a lot of money on flat veneers, cut out 

 the panels. Keep the business separate and then 

 you will know what you are doing. 



Mr. Anderson : It seems to me that we repre- 

 sent three rather distinct classes of manufac- 

 turers, whose interests are all closely associated. 

 There is the panel maker who does not cut hfs 

 own veneers ; there is the one who does, and 

 there Is the veneer cutter who manufactures no 

 panels. On this account it seems to me that 

 the base ought to be the single ply veneer. I 

 am therefore very much interested in the meet- 

 ing tomorrow morning. Getting at a basis for 

 prices Is a very important point. Some different 

 base for grades on thinner stock as discussed in 

 the last meeting ought to be arrived at. I have 

 no doubt that the panel makers as well as the 

 rest of us are anxious to make all the money 

 possible. If they will give the veneer makers a 

 chance to make a profit, it will give the fellow 

 who makes them both a chance to make some 

 more. 



Mr. Munyon : I wish to say right here that 

 from this cost system I keep and from the talks 

 I have had with many veneer men I find it costs 

 me fifty per cent more to make veneers than 

 others say it costs them. 



Mr. Kline : While I don't know that my con- 

 cern figures accurately, we try to come as dose to 

 cost as we can, and we try to make a legitimate 

 profit on the goods we supply to the trade. If 

 I could shade the price that some other panel 

 man makes, why should I do It'/ Our concern 

 Hnils that It has lived and made a nominal profit 

 anil that Is the best we ran say. 



A Good Sugge.stion. 



Mr. Moore : I would like to make a sugges 

 tion. and that Is that In your general meeting 

 tomorrow you have a "question box." Let each 

 man present write one question and deposit It 

 without any signature attached, and let each 

 question be asked by the chairman and answered 

 by the people In attendance. I think you will 

 find It will bring out some Interesting discussion. 



Mr. Kline: I think tliat a good suggestion to 

 carry out. 



Terms and Discounts. 



Mr. Underwood : 1 would like to have an ex- 

 pression on (he point of cash discounts. There 

 has been a good deal of disagreement in lumber 

 associations in regard to that point. One man 

 will allow two per cent ten days, and another 

 will allow thirty days, two off. If we could 

 agree on some cash discount and all stick to 

 it, it would be a good thing. 



A general discussion on time, notes, discount, 

 etc., followed. 



Mr. Sawyer : IIow many veneer manufactur- 

 ers are there and how can we Interest them in 

 this association? 



Mr. Gibson : There are approximately five 

 hundred concerns manufacturing veneers in va- 

 rious forms. You want them all with you. I 

 should think the thing to do would be to have 

 the proceedings of your meeting here published 

 and put in the hands of all these people. In 

 this way they will read about what you have 

 been discussing and doing, and you will arouse 

 their interest in the work of the association. 

 It seems to me that this is the logical way to 

 get them to join in the work with you. 



Mr. Sawyer : I agree with Mr. Gibson on this 

 point, and I move that the secretary mail to 

 everyone interested in veneers an abstract of 

 ihe proceedings of this meeting. 



S^econded and carried. 



Mr. Sheip : I am a boxmaker of several years' 

 standing. We have been making sliced cut 

 veneers only at Knoxville, and most of our trade 

 is in the South. .Speaking about terms and dis- 

 counts and the time people take, it is almost 

 impossible to get the southern people (the fur- 

 niture men) to settle inside of thirty to sixty 

 days. I find many take three and four months. 

 The competition in the South from some of the 

 New York concerns is very strong, but they have 

 I'aised their prices. Formerly they were very low 

 on sliced cut veneers. I believe it would be a 

 good idea to get these big eastern men into the 

 association. I believe in organization, and as 

 we are new in this line of business such an as- 

 sociation as this gives out a great deal of useful 

 information. We want to be in line on prices, 

 and I feel sure these men will be. Some of 

 ihem have large veneer factories in the South. We 

 have been greatly benefited by other associations 

 in which we are interested. It is always a good 

 thing to confer with your competitor and people 

 are getting together all over the country in 

 various lines of manufacture. I feel sure that 

 llie veneer business is not as rosy as the veneer 

 maeliinery men say it is. I believe we can all 

 stand for better prices. I do not believe any of 

 the manut"acturei-s, considering the high prices 

 of southern lumber, think the prices we are 

 getting now are good. By getting together and 

 comparing figures it will be of great mutual 

 benefit, and I am very glad indeed to be invited 

 to this association and am pleased to join, and 

 if I can in any way get some of the eastern 

 manufacturers Interested I shall be only too glad 

 to do all I can. 



Mr. Kline : I think the matter of discounts Is 

 of considerable Importanci'. It might be well 

 to appoint a (■omuilttee on terms and discounts. 



.Mr. Itenjamln : I move that such a committee, 

 consisting of three members, be appointed. 



Seconded and carried. 



-Mr. Kline: I will appoint as such committee 

 .Mr. Dayton, chairman, Mr. (iroffnian and Mr. 



r,>-iijjiiiiiii. 



Separate Meetings of Veneer and Panel 

 Men. 

 Mr. i;roffuuin ; In speaking of co.sl, I might 

 say that some of us are better situated than oth- 

 ers. Those fortunately situated ought to reap 

 the benefits. It Is a question of how much wc 

 can get. We ought to decide upon what we 

 ought lo get. Of course wc can't establish prices 

 here today, but we can have a conference of 



panel manufacturers and of veneer manufactur- 

 ers, and let them say that one-quarter Inch pan- 

 els in plain oak ought to bring so much money ; 

 in quartered oak, so much money, and then 

 grade prices according to sizes, as has been 

 stated. Some of us are interested in veneer as 

 well as in built-up work, and for that reason we 

 ought to set stated times for these meetings, and 

 I believe that the committees created at the last 

 meeting ought to be enlarged, in order to get a good 

 many of the experienced men together to discuss 

 matters. I now make a motion (being on the 

 panel committee, consisting of three members) 

 that the panel committee be increased. Let 

 them meet and then let all those interested In 

 veneers meet. 



After some discussion, the chair decided to call 

 a meeting of all those interested in veneers at 

 10 a. m. Thursday, and of all Interested in pan- 

 els at noon, the general association not to con- 

 vene until 2 p. m. 



Plan to Increase Interest in Association. 



Mr. Sawyer: It seems to me there are very 

 few present considering the number of men In- 

 terested in this work in the United States. Some 

 plan should be formulated to get in touch with 

 these other people who are not here. I do not 

 think our work here will amount to much unless 

 we can move others to the same spirit. If we 

 can, then we have a great future before us. We 

 should be able to put up a little money to pay 

 somebody's expenses lo go out and get in touch 

 with them. If we can show these men that the 

 overhead charges are great and that really they 

 are not getting such a bonanza, we can educate 

 them to not enter the business unless they can 

 get better prices. We should put hundreds into 

 this proposition, and we can get tliousands out 

 of it. But sitting here doing a lot of talking 

 is not going to do much good. We must act. 

 Prices are going up rapidly in the lumber busi- 

 ness, the handle business, etc. We must give 

 time, thought and money to this organization. 

 Other associations have their agents out most of 

 the time. We must liave somebody who will give 

 nearly all his time to looking this thing up and 

 working it up, and instead of getting less prices 

 than we did thirty years ago, wo will double 

 them. I believe inside of the next year we can 

 double our prices if we put euough money and 

 brains into 11. I don't believe there is enough 

 thought given to devising ways and means to 

 get this raise in price which we want. We must 

 get the little fellow who begins with one ma- 

 chine to come with us. 



Mr. Kline: You must recollect that this Is 

 only the second meeting of this association. It 

 is true we must get some ground work thought 

 up with which to get after these fellows. Just 

 your kind of man is the one we want. We want 

 to get everybody together to talk things over 

 every once in a while. \>'e have no representa- 

 tion from the South, for instance. It is because 

 our meeting is in the North. We must have 

 southern meetings and go down there and get 

 the southern men in. Then we will accomplish 

 something. 



Mr. Sawyer : I want to say expressly that I 

 am not finding fault with what has been done, 

 but I am looking toward the future. I think 

 we should be able to put some money In it in 

 future and give it considerable time. 



Mr. Defebaugh : I shall be compelled to dis- 

 agree here with my esteemed friend, Mr. Gibson, 

 about there being DOO veneer men In the country. 

 We have gone through this list carefully and 

 have finally sifted It down to about 2Z>0. Fifty 

 of these people are with us now, 100 have been 

 heard from, but of course there Is still a good 

 deal of missionary work lo be done. However, 

 we can't do all this work In a minute. The his- 

 tory of all big associations shows this to be 

 true. I believe veneer manufacturers could af- 

 ford eventually to pay ¥10,000 for a man lo 

 conduct this business, and work our plans for 

 It, but It will take time to educate people up 

 lo this proposition. It Is erroneous to Imagine 



