July 10, 1922 



HARDWOOD RECORD 



17 



We are not involved here in discussing trees and their origin ; it is purely 

 a question of terms in the trade — trade terms. 



And then we come to the quality of any particular species or any gen- 

 eral variety that we have determined upon. And there is a wide variation 

 there. Some lumbers are designated by clears, and other qualities, whilst 

 others have other nomenclature, and we ought to have the same terms, 

 if that is possible. So that those are questions of terms, of nomenclature. 



Then we come to the questions of guarantees. As to how. after lumber 

 has been divided on any such basis as we may determine as to its nomen- 

 clature, how the public is to have any assurance as to what it gets. And 

 there we have to enter into the problems of inspection, and certification, 

 and markings, or other devices that might be developed to give some 

 assurances to the consumer. And I do believe it is infinitely in the 

 interest of the industry as a whole that we should set up. if it is possible, 

 some sort of a system that will result in a practical guarantee. I confess 

 that is a matter that you will have to find a solution for, if it can be 

 found, as I have but little useful suggestion to make. But these guar- 

 antees are fundamentally one of the greatest eliminations of wastes that 

 could be made in the industry ; in the elimination of litigation and dispute, 

 and in the better education of the public which can follow as to the best 

 grade adapted to certain purposes, etc, etc. But it is hopeless to get 

 through with that end of the program, unless there is some pretty well 

 defined assurance to the public that the grades, qualities and so forth, 

 are goii.g to be as represented. 



Now the third branch of the discussion is that of simplification ; sim- 

 plification of dimensions and other items that make for economy in both 

 I>roduction and transportation and distribution. The difficulties, of course, 

 are very large, more especially as there are some forty thousand sawmills 

 in the country, and hitherto, in our examination of these questions and in 

 the actual processes of securing simplified practice, we have found that 

 the first thing fundamental to it is some kind of a survey to know how 

 many varieties of dimensions, and sizes, and so on, there are in the dif- 

 ferent breeds of the commodity, and we have made the most successful 

 approach to that problem hitherto, not by setting up positive sizes so much 

 as the elimination of a great number of sizes for which there is but com- 

 paratively little call, or of comparatively little importance. However, that 

 is a matter that has to develop in the trade, as to the method by which 

 the problem can be approached. 



The Attitude of the Govenunent 



To illustrate the significant point behind this call and the pos- 

 sible attitude of the government in relation to the industry, it 

 might be well to quote from this same speech of the Secretary: 



I would like to make this general observation, that there has been 

 agitation in the lumber trade, or amongst the public, for the last twenty- 

 five years for some kind of government inspection, government grade and 

 government control of that type. Some of the branches of the lumber 

 trade themselves have recommended courses of that order. 



My own feeling is that if we can develop these things through the 

 internal machinery of the trade itself, as a matter of self-government in 

 the trade, that we will have secured infinitely better results, and we will 

 have secured something even more fundamental than that, and that is 

 the sense of self reliance in the American people. 



I do resent this attempt to extend the arm of the govrnment into every 

 direction, and it is my belief that we have reached the point in the de- 

 velopment of our commercial fabric where our grades can be assisted to 

 establish such basis of existence in matters of this character as to make 

 it totally unnecessary for the government to have any exercise whatever. 

 The trades can do these things infinitely more efficiently than government 

 can do them. 



Following the great applause which the Secretary's remarks 

 brought forth, the chairman invited representatives of the various 

 regional associations present to present their views, the first be- 

 ing Secretary J. E. Rhodes of the Southern Pine Association. 



"W. T. Murray, chairman of the grading eomuiittee of the South- 

 ern Pine Association, then spoke briefly regarding the application 

 of southern pine rules. A significant paragraph iu his remarks as 

 bearing on the contention that the meeting was packed with soft- 

 wood men to over-ride the hardwood element, is as follows: 



I h.=iveu't any decided views as to how to proceed in this matter. 1 

 feel that the hardwood people have a different problem than the others 

 have, on the matter of entering into grade marking. 



Sherrill Makes a Statement 



Following Mr. Murray there were several other softwood men, 

 C. H. Sherrill of the then American Hardwood Manufacturers^ As- 

 sociation being the first of the hardwood men to speak. His re- 

 marks were as follows: 



Mr. Chairman. I did not expect to be called upon for any information. 

 Unfortunately, we are not so favorably situated, I think, in coming to 

 definite conclusions with regard to a g'eneral settlement with respect to 

 standard specifications and the measurement of hardwood lumber. Our 

 industry has been divided into different organizations — unlike the yellow 

 pine and the Pacific Coast interests. We have our organization known as 

 the National Hardwood Lumber Association, and until a few months ago 

 we were operating the American Hardwood Manufacturers' Association. 

 There is also a northern hardwood manufacturers', known. I believe, as 

 the Michigan and Wisconsin association. That is not the proper name 

 for that association, but it describes the locality in which they operate. 



As the lumber world and the public generally know, the American Hard- 

 wood Manufacturers' Association was unfortunate in having been called 

 to answer by the federal government for a violation of the Sherman anti- 

 trust law. We who were brought into court on that subject felt at that 

 time, and still feel, that our efforts were strictly within the law. The 

 higheV court had spoken, and there were some features of our operation 

 and management that were not indorsed, and for several months past we 

 have been waiting for a final answer and have necessarily been forced to 

 be inactive in our efforts. 



During this period of time we tried to keep intact our rules and recognize 

 the American Hardwood Manufacturers' Association rules, which by our 

 agreement were, at the time this case was brought into court, practicallv 

 the same as the National Hardwood Association rules. We are just now 

 in the situation of trying to get ourselves settled on a course of activity 



which will be strictly beyond suspicion and absolutely in accordance with 

 the Sherman anti-trust law. and also to invite and to have the recognition 

 and endorsement of the public at large. Very soon we hope, as the Amer- 

 ican Hardwood Manufacturers' Association, to get ourselves reorganized 

 in strict conformity with these laws, but today, with a very few supple- 

 ments that we made a short time ago in the 'National Hardwood Manu- 

 facturers' Association rules, w^e are using the same rules. 



I believe I express the opinion and the judgment of the best interests 

 of the hardwood industry when I say that we are not fighting each other, 

 but that the brains of both of these organizations are earnestly endeavoring 

 to find ways and means by which we can get together in accord and sit 

 at the same table on the question of inspection rules and measurements 

 of hardwood lumber. I believe the time is close at hand when that will 

 be the case. 



And I believe I further express the sentiment of the personnel of 

 both these organizations when I say that we are most anxious to arrive 

 at a conclusion that will give to the public at large a simple set of rules 

 to control the handling of our production. I do admit that there is great 

 room for improvement, but when we can once sit down together and 

 simplify our rules and make them so clear and simple that the public 

 can easily comprehend them, we will to a very great extent eliminate the 

 complaints that may have been offered in the past with respect to han- 

 dling our production. 



We must all admit that there are many complications that face the 

 hardwood manufacturer that do not face the yellow pine industi-y or the 

 Pacific Coast industry, because of the fact that they manufacture one 

 wood only, whereas we have many varieties and species in the hardwood 

 industry, and each of these goes in large measure to different consuming 

 elements. Therefore our contentions multiply and multiply by a hundred. 

 I might say, in comparison with those of other industries. Therefore our 

 problem is a greater one than these other representative bodies have. 

 And yet we are willing and anxious to cooperate in every way we can to 

 find a solution that will be practicable for the questions that are before 

 us today, which are causing complications and will continue to cause 

 them until we are able to simplify our inspection rules. 



Chairman Calls Mr. Saunders 



Following Mr. Sherrill 's talk, the chairman called upon W. L. 



Saunders, representing the Michigan Hardwood Manufacturers' 



Association with headquarters at Cadillac, Mich. Mr. Saunders 



spoke as follows: 



Mr. Chairman and gentlemen. I think that our industry is very easy 

 to line up on the proposition of standardization and marking of grades 

 and so on. While we have many kinds of wood, there are really only 

 five grades,- which certainly are none too many. 



So far as the standardization of grades is concerned. I can not see. 

 after forty-five years of practice, how it is easy in a short period of 

 time to benefit by any changes that might be suggested. I think the 

 grades are well defined and are recognized in the trade. Sizes and thick- 

 nesses of hardwood are governed wholly by the demand. The width and 

 length of a board is determined, in the hardw-ood trade, by what the 

 log will produce. Hence sizes should not be considered, I think, in any- 

 thing that might be suggested. 



I do not think that grade marking would be at all objectionable to our 

 membership, both as to Wisconsin and Michigan, excepting possibly in 

 the lower grades. For instance, take what we call No. 3. which is' the 

 low end of the log and is generally conceded to be from 25 to 35 per cent 

 of the entire product. That goes almost entirely into one class of work 

 and can not in any way be juggled. We would be opposed to going to the 

 expense of marking anything of that kind. 



As to the better grades, firsts and seconds, that is an easy proposition. 

 We have our No. 1 common and No. 2 common, and our selects, and we 

 have our hemlock. Those things are all easily taken care of. and we 

 join with the majority of the building trades production, whatever they 

 decide, whatever their sizes may be. Two-thirds of Michigan's hemlock 

 is put out on a quarter of an inch off basis. 



I think that covers our proposition. We will do anything that the 

 majority of the softwood people want to do. We are in favor of stand- 

 ing by the established grades now in use. 



Immediately upon conclusion of Mr, Saunders' address. Secretary 

 Hoover indicated the broad scope of the conference with the state- 

 ment that *'We have invited the representatives of the larger con- 

 suming trades to meet with you later in the week for the purpose of 

 getting at just the point you make. To see if we can simplify the 

 demand and thus simplify the production." 



Convention Hears from Mr. Taylor 



The chair then called upon Horace F. Taylor, president of the 

 National Hardwood Lumber Association, who spoke as follows: 



Mr. Chairman, Mr. Secretary and gentlemen : While I am on my feet 

 I want to take the liberty of voicing what 1 am sure is the sentiment of 

 ever>' man here, that we very deeply appreciate the position of Secretary 

 Hoover in connection with these matters. He has spoken to us, and he has 

 shown a businesslike, sound point of view. Not only that, but he has 

 shown a vision which promises well for the future of American business, 

 with his assistance. 



I think I am right in saying that the delegation from the National Hard- 

 wood Lumber Association has no chairman, so I am assuming to speak 

 for the association, and particularly for the large number of producers 

 within its membership. 



As most of you lumbermen know, we have already gone a long way in 

 the standardization of hardwoods. In fact, I might say that standardiza- 

 tion is now a fact. There is only one set of official rules, and I ?eel it is 

 safe to say that 05 per cent of the lumber that is shipped today, as to 

 hardwoods, is shipped according to specifications and rules of the Na- 

 tional Hardwood Lumber Association, 



Those rules have been the result of twenty-five years' development, and 

 they have now reached the point where in the wisdom of our 1,450 mem- 

 bers — I think we have that number — the minimum of change is made 

 each year. We have reached the point where we think that stabilization 

 is the thing, rather than change. 



We have. Mr. Chairman, not only been successful, I think, I raa.v say 

 modestly, in establishing these rules and having them widely recognize<i. 

 but we are about to go a step further in the work of the National Hard- 

 wood Lumber Association, and that is in the presentation of a general sales 

 code for hardwoods. That goes a step further than the mere application 



