July lo. 1922 



HARDWOOD RECORD 



19 



senting the Northern Hemlock and Hardwood Manufacturers' Asso- 

 ciation; C. H. Sherrill, B. F. Dulweber, W. N. Bitter, representing 

 the American Hardwood Manufacturers' Association; Horace F. 

 Taylor, Earl Palmer, John W. McClure, representing the National 

 Hardwood Lumber Association. 



President Blodgett then re-enumerated the three points made by 

 Secretary Hoover in the matter of suggesting committees for carry- 

 ing on their work of investigation. He said that the lumber indus- 

 try is on trial and has to make good and that the project is a greater 

 problem than the public has any conception of by reason of the 

 great variety of woods; various uses to which they are put, and 

 the great variety of conditions surrounding their production. He 

 said: 



Of courst? we have got to meet with the consumers * • • but first of 

 all we must reach conclusions and agreements among ourselves so that we 

 can present to the consumers such agreements and the reason therefor. 



After some general discussion of ways and means of proceeding, 

 during which Mr. Durgin participated, Edward Hines presented a 

 resolution favoring the manufacture of lumber in such sizes as will 

 most effectively conserve raw material, adequately meet the needs 

 of commerce, and be serviceable for what the lumber may be used; 

 introducing the thought of standard sizes as far as practicable and 

 consistent with conservation, distribution and utilization; recog- 

 nizing the necessity for insuring the use of suitable lumber, stand- 

 ard quality and without waste and at minimum cost, and guaran- 

 teeing adequate protection so far as it is within the power of the 

 industry to the consumer both in the matter of grade and quantity. 



After considerable discussion this was referred to a resolution 

 committee to be appointed later. 



At the suggestion of Earl Palmer, of Memphis, representing the 



National Hardwood Lumber Association, the last paragraph of this 



resolution was extended to include at the end the words, "as in the 



past," this paragraph then reading as follows: 



So far. therefore, as it is within the power of the lumber industry we 

 undertake, through association grades and inspection, to protect the public 

 by the protection, and wherever possible the guaranty of the integrity of 

 the grade of our product and of the delivery to the buyer of the grade and 

 quantity sold by the sawmill "as in the past." 



The Controversy Regarding Separation of Hardwoods and 



Softwoods 



The president suggested the appointment of the respective com- 

 mitees as covering the three subjects before the conference, sug- 

 gesting further a caucus of ten minutes for the delegates. It was at 

 this point that discussion of the possibility of separate committees 

 for hardwood and softwood came in. 



The discussion was opened by Eli Wiener, which discussion was 

 as follows: 



Mr. Chairman, would it not be well to have two committees, one for soft- 

 woods, and one for the hardwoods ? 



Mr. President ; No ; the committees, I would suggest, should be the 

 same for the hardwoods and the softwoods. It may be necessary for the 

 committees to divide into two subcommittees, or into different heads. It 

 may be that there should be two heads, or two subcommittees, one head 

 covering hardwoods, and one covering the softwoods, but each committee 

 will have a representative from every branch of the industry here repre- 

 sented. 



Horace F. Taylor : Mr. Chairman, as you perhaps know, the Hard- 

 wood Lumber Association has gone quite a ways on these subjects which 

 the committee is to accomplish. In other words, as Mr, Durgin has sug- 

 gested, we have already accomplished results, so far as these suggestions 

 are concerned. Furthermore, the delegation from the Hardwood Association 

 is rather small, and we have talked it over, and I think it wowld be better 

 for the full delegation to be on each committee, as we have only one repre- 

 sentative of some of the organizations, and he would represent it in that 

 way. 



The President : They will not have anything on the California Redwood 

 Association, which has only one representative ; and the California White 

 and Sugar Pine Manufacturers' Association, which has only one representa- 

 tive ; and the Georgia-Florida Sawmill Association, which has only one 

 representative, and the Northern Pine Association, which has only one. 



I wish the National Hardwood Association would take this up from a 

 different standpoint. If they have accomplished all these things, then 

 their problem is to get into touch with the others, and help them to 

 solve it. 



Mr. Taylor : We could not be of any assistance to the hard pine. 



The President : We appreciate that, but you should have a repre- 

 sentative on each of these committees, so as to help to bring in a unani- 

 mous report. If your plan was adopted, then every committee would 

 consist of everybodv. 



Mr. Taylor : I don't think you get me, Mr. Chairman. My suggestion 

 was that the consideration of softwoods be undertaken separate from the 

 hardwood proposition. There is almost nothing in this program that is 

 common between the softwoods and the hardwoods. 



The Chair Pleads for a United Industry 



The President: My thought was, Mr. Taylor, for the purpose of get- 

 ting this into as simple a method as possible, and for the purpose of 

 presenting as united a front as possible to the consumer — because when 

 the consumer gets here he will represent the consumer of all kinds of 

 woods, and my thought was, therefore, that these three general commit- 

 tees have on their membership a representative of every branch of the 



industry that is here present. When the committee meets, it it thinks 

 well to divide Into two sub-committees, that is all right, if it chooses to 

 do that, let them divide into two sub-committees, and have a sub-chairman, 

 or vice-chairman, and let them meet separately, and if the hardwood 

 section presents a united front to the full committee, their report will, 

 of course, be adopted, and be made a part of the report of the committee. 

 My thought was to have as few reports as possible, and have a united 

 front, or as united a front as possible. 



Earl Palmer : Mr. Chairman, I want to help the situation a little. We 

 want to work with you agreeably, but when you put us on a committee 

 with the Redwood Association that we are not familiar with at all. how is it 

 possible for us to go into a meeting and offer suggestions as to something 

 we do not know anything about? And we think, also, that when these 

 gentlemen get on our committee, they could not offer intelligent advice to 

 it about hardwoods. We believe when it comes to hardwoods, we are 

 there with both feet, but we confess our Ignorance on the softwoods. And 

 we believe that our friends, with all due respect and courtesv to thstn, 

 might be at a loss in the hardwoods committee. 



The President : I appreciate what you say, but my thought was that 

 when the committee met on these subjects, the unanimous recommendation 

 of the hardwood section would be accepted, and the unanimous recom- 

 mendation of the other section would be accepted, so that there would 

 be just one report made. It might cover several heads. It necessarily 

 must. I am simply advancing this as my own suggestion, for the sim- 

 plification of the proceeding. If this body has any other thought or 

 view, they are in control and can govern. 



Mr. Palmer : We will be very glad to defer to those softwoods men on 

 names, or anything that they would know anything about : and on the 

 same basis, when we talk about hardwoods they will support us. That 

 is my thought, if we were going into a committee. 



The President : That is my thought in a nut shell. 



Mr. Palmer : There is no need of going into a committee to do that. 

 We will deliver the goods. 



The President : Gentlemen, the chair is ready to entertain a motion 

 looking towards progress in some direction. 



A. C. Dixon : Mr. Chairman, just as a practical matter, my under- 

 standing of your suggestion is this : That there be three committees, 

 each committee to have on it representatives from the various associa- 

 tions, so far as the membership present will permit it : that each of these 

 committees have two heads ; that each will work out its own problems, 

 and that each committee will come in with a united report, one on 

 hardwoods, and one on softwoods; isn't that the thought? 



The President : I thought that is the way it would take. I did not 

 intend to make it obligatory to divide it into two sections, unless they 

 saw at to do so. 



Mr. Dixon : It looks to me as if the suggestion of the President is a 

 proper one. and that will result in three reports, rather than six separate 

 reports coming in. And I move that with the word "may" in there, 

 instead of the word "shall." that that be the order of business. 



W. B. Mack : I second that motion, Mr. Chairman. 



The President : You have heard this motion, gentlemen. As I under- 

 stand it, I suppose you intend to incorporate the suggestion that I made 

 a few moments ago, and that is that a recess be taken for ten minutes, 

 and during that time the regional associations caucus, and then present 

 to the association the names of the men for these various committees. 

 .\re there any further remarks? 



Should Handle Basic Problems as a Whole 



W. T. Murray : Mr. Chairman. I don't know whether we are getting 

 off on the right foot in trying to differentiate the hardwoods and the 

 softwoods, or not. Manifestly the .Secretary of Commerce intended to 

 call in all wood producers, and his program for standardization did not 

 contemplate California redwood or cypress, or hard pine, or yellow pine. 

 or any other kinds oi woods coming in and trying to establish themselves 

 on any different standard than that which it "is desirous of being worked 

 out. I don't see any reason why the hardwood manufacturers — and I 

 am a hardwood manufacturer, and a member of the Hardwood Association 

 — I do not see why they could not agree with the same principles, and 

 why they could not go along on the program, so far as the sizes are 

 concerned. While half of the hardwood is shipped rough, there is some 

 of it in finished sizes, and that is manufactured all ready for use, and 

 that is very much in harmony with the finished southern pine, and with 

 the west coast woods. I don't think we should send out two committees, 

 but thev could meet around a table, and try to arrive at some standardiza- 

 tion. Certainly the hardwoods need standardization more than the soft- 

 woods, and I speak advisedly, because I have had experience with both. 



Mr. Murray : The thought I was objecting to was that we bring in 

 two reports, one on the hardwoods, and the other on the softwoods. I 

 think there should be one report. 



Edward Hines : Is it not a fact that the questions here are of interest 

 to us all? We are manufacturers. The questions, or some of them, are 

 identical. In the first place, the practices are alike, in many respects, 

 in hardwoods and softwoods, and, therefore, on the question of nomen- 

 clature we could act together. 



And the next question is the protection of the public. That is a ques- 

 tion that is identical in hardwoods and in softwoods. 



Now, the next question — and there are onl.v three questions — is, why 

 is it not an opportune time, even if in the past we had different sizes, 

 why is not this an opportune time to see if we cannot harmonize and 

 get together and agree at this time. It seems to me the secretary this 

 morning made that very clear, that he wanted it taken up as a whole. 

 Now. if we have separate committees we cannot get anywhere. I am in 

 favor of Mr. Murray's suggestion. I am in favor of the president's sug- 

 gestion. He has been in consultation with the secretary, and knows what 

 the secretary desires, and what his views are, and I think we should be 

 guided largely by the chairman's suggestion. I believe that in 90 percent 

 of the cases, the questions of protection of the public, and the matter of 

 principles and ethics in hardwoods, and pines and fir, are identical, abso- 

 lutely. And the only place where there is any difference is in sizes, and 

 I believe we can consider that, and that can be considered together, be- 

 cause as we go along, evolution takes place. It is only a matter of detail. 

 1 would like to suggest a motion, if it is practical, that we adopt the 

 president's suggestion and proceed to work. 



Mr. Dulweber : Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, on behalf of the Amer- 

 ican Hardwood Manufacturers' Association, representing hardwoods ex- 

 clusively, I want to endorse all that Mr. Hines and Mr. Murray have said. 

 We agree with the program here, and believe it can be worked out satis- 

 factorily in that manner. 



Hoover Wants United Program 



The President: I want to say. as t.ir as the mind of Secretary Hoover 

 is concerned, there is no one who knows his views and ideas on this great 

 plan of simplification as well as Mr. Durgin, who is with us now. and who 

 is the head of the department of simplification of practices in the Depart- 

 ment of Commerce, and I am going to ask Mr. Durgin to give us a little 

 light on that subject. 



Mr. Durgin : Gentlemen, we agree that this is a matter for the com- 

 mittees to work out. I want to emphasize that. And we want the com- 

 mittees to work it out on their own lines. I agree with what has just 



