20 



HARDWOOD RECORD 



July 10. l'.f_': 



been expressed. We are thinking of this matter fmrn a national stand- 

 point; we are thinking of it from the standpoint of the man who bnilds 

 a house. If you are going to have one standard, then work that out. I 

 do not know very much about your names. I come from a different field. 

 I have been dealing all my litV with kilowatts. I don't know whether 

 you know what a kilowatt is; I doubt whether you do. And along the 

 same line, I don't know what common and clears are. You have got to 

 get down to simple terms that mean something, if you expect to have the 

 confidence of the nation upon this movement. Now you tell us that the 

 hardwoods are different from the softwoods; that they were different from 

 the softwoods from the time the seed was planted. Of course, they were. 

 but they have a good many things in common ; they both come from a tree. 

 and they start out with something unified, and we want you to have some- 

 thing lunified, and that is the point of view that the secretary is trying 

 to get over. He is trying to get these big things as units, and not in three 

 or four camps, squabbling as to which is the most important. 



Hardwood Men DiiFer on Perfection of Rules 



John W. McClure : Mr. Chairman, may I speak a f"w words for the 

 hardwood industry? I understand from Secretary Hoover in his opening 

 remarks that it was not the purpose of this department to upset or destroy 

 anything that had been adopted and accepted as universal practices. Now. 

 I think we might as well recognize the fundamental differences between 

 hardwoods and softwoods which have grown up in the trade. The con- 

 duct of the business is different, and the customs in the trade are dif- 

 ferent, and the National Hardwood Lumber Association has been working 

 for twenty years to solve the very problems that Mr. Hoover has pre- 

 sented. We believe that we have solved those in a way that is acceptable 

 to the trade, and we do not believe we can do anything to harmonize 

 our standards with the softwoods standards, without its disrupting our 

 standards which we have acceptably set up. and which have been accepted 

 in the trade. And it seems to me that we should be naturally together. 

 Now, it would be all right to put the reports together, putting the hard- 

 woods report separate from the softwood report. I think it would be 

 wrong from the very beginning to do anything which would upset the 

 hardwoods standards which have accomplished practically in a universal 

 ■way the things mentioned here, and I believe the consumers will uphold 

 us in what we have set out to do. 



The President : I think it is your duty to help pull the rest of the 

 industry up to the point which yi»u liavo roarhed. 



Rules Not Scientifically Built 



Mr. Dulweber : Mr. Chairman, the southern hardwood manufacturers. 

 and the manufacturers from the Appalachian field do not feel that we 

 have reached perfection. We feel there is much use for improvement in 

 the field. And we aspire tc» the same position that exists in the yellow 

 pine and the other fields of the industry. The fundamental difference 

 between the yellow pine and the hardwood situation, and the manufac 

 turers of all other lumber, is that in these other branches, the manufac- 

 turers, with the advice of the consumers have, from time to time, made 

 their rules, and those rules have been formulated with the view of answer- 

 ing particular requirements, so that today in the different branches of 

 the industry, while there is a little difference, still you have minimiaed 

 the waste, and still have done the country a great deal of good. In the 

 hardwood industry that is not true. Our rules have not been built up 

 scientifically. They were not made by the manufacturer: the manufac- 

 turer had but a small voice in those rules, and we think this is the time 

 to get into line with the other manufacturers, whether redwood, or yellow 

 pine, cypress, or what not, and standardize our situation as closely as 

 we can. 



The President : If there are no further remarks — 



Mr. Palmer (interposing) : Mr. Chairman. I would like to get in there 

 a statement in reply to the statement as made that the rules were not 

 made by the hardwood manufacturers. The hardwood manufacturers' 

 association is composed of about 1,500 manufacturers. And the consumer 

 has met wtih us and worked out these rules. As tn the grades, if that 

 means selling less than an inch for an inch, the Hardwood Association 

 has not done that. But otherwise we have stabilJKed and standardized 

 as possibly the product for no other market has standardized ; and in 

 addition to that we have established a system for inspection that is 

 recognized all over the country. We are well established. The trade is 

 well established, notwithstanding the remark made by the gentleman who 

 last spoke. 



(Calls of "question.") 



The President : I will put the motion. Those in favor of the motion 

 as made by Mr. Dixon, of the West Coast Association, will indicate it 

 by saying "aye." i'ontrary "no." The motion prevails. A recess will 

 be taken for ten minutes, and the various regional nssociations will then 

 report back to the secretary with their nominees for the three committees. 



The Committees Are Announced 



On reconvening after the ten minute caucus, Secretarj^ Comptou 

 announced the following committee: 



1. Committee on Nomenclature. 



M. B. Nelson, of the Southern Pine Association. 



K. H. Koehler, of the West Coast Lumbermen's Association. 



L. S. Case, of the Western Pine Manufacturers' Association, 



W. R. McMillan, of the California Redwood Association. 



R. E. Danaber. of the California White and Sugar Pine Manufacturers' 

 Association. 



J. Ray Arnold, of the Grcorgia-Florida Sawmill Association. 



W. L. Saunders, of the Michigan Hardwood Manufacturers' Association. 



J. Ross McXeal, of the North Carolina Pine Associalion. 



H. C. Hornby, Northern Pine Manufacturers' Association. 



Edward Hines, Northern Hemlock and Hardwood Manufacturers' Asso- 

 ciation. 



H. B. Ilewes. Southern Cypress Manufacturers' Association. 



C. H. Sherrill, American Hardwood Manufacturers' Association. 



The National Hardwood Lumber Association has made no designation 

 for this committee. 



For the second committee on guarantees of quality and quantity, 



including grade marking, the following designations were made: 



J. W. Martin. Southern Pine Association. 



A. C. Uixon, West Coast Lumbermen's Association. 



E. H. Polleys, Western Pine Manufacturers' Association. 



W. R. McMillan. California Redwood Association. 



R. E. Danaher, California White and Sugar Pine Manufacturers' Asso- 

 ciation. 



J. Ray Arnold, Georgia-Florida Sawmill Association. 

 W. L. Saunders, Michigan Hardwood Manufacturers' Association. 



Thomas O'Berry, Northern Carolina Pine Association. 



H. C. Hornby. Northern Pine Manufacturer.s' Association. 



Kdward Hines, Northern HiMulock and Hardwood Manufacturers' Asso- 

 cialion. 



II. B. Hewes, Southern Cypress Manufacturers' Association. 

 W. M. Ritter, American Hardwood Manufacturers' Association. 

 Tlie National Hardwood Association makes the same announcement with 

 reference to this committee. 



The third Committee on Simplification and Standardization was 



as follows: 



W. B. Mack, West Coast Lumbermen's Association. 



Howard Jayne, West i.'oast Lumbermen's Association. 



.1. P. McGoldrick. Western Pine Manufacturers' Association. 



\V. R. McMillan, California Redwood Association. 



R. E. Danaher, California White and Sugar Pine Manufacturers' Assn 

 elation. 



J. Ray Arnold. Georgia-Florida Sawmill Association. 



W. L. Saunders. Michigan Hardwood Manufacturers' Association. 



Charles Hill, North Carolina Pine Association. 



H. C. Hornby, Northern Pine Manufacturers' Association, 



Charles A. Goodman, Northern Hemlock and Hardwood Manufacturers* 

 Association. 



H. B. Hewes, Southern Cypress Manufacturers' Association. 



B. F. iHilweber, American Hardwood Manufacturers' Association. 



The National Hardwood Associatitm makes the same announcement with 

 reference to that committee. 



Following the announcement of these committees, a resolution 

 was offered and referred to the Committee on Resolutions, that in 

 work involving standardization, guarantees, etc., the lumber in- 

 dustry keep in constant touch with the various government .de- 

 partments through the National Lumber Manufacturers Associa- 

 tion and that the regional associations keep the National Associa- 

 tion constantly advised of progress of the program. There followed 

 some brief discussion on various subjects prior to adjournment of 

 tlie first day's session. 



The Second. Day 



On opening the second day's session it "was moved and carried 

 that the roll be called and that a session be inaugurated in co- 

 operation with the represent-atives of the Department of Agricul- 

 ture and the Department of Commerce. There followed the roll 

 call and general discussion of procedure, during which the presi- 

 dent said, "There is one other thought that I want to put over 

 and this may perhaps be a little bit of a damper — and that is this: 

 that no matter whether the committee reports, when they come to 

 us, are unanimous and are unanimously adopted, there is nothing 

 positive as to a determination of the matter in question, except 

 tliat it represents the ideas of the manufacturer. It has then got to 

 jjo to the representatives of the consumers, who have been sum- 

 moned here by the Secretary of Commerce, and will be here tomor- 

 row; tliey will meet us tomorrow morning at ten o'clock in this 

 room. And perhaps I might add here that the good offices of the 

 Department of Commerce wall be exercised toward getting the con- 

 sumers to look at these problems, so far as possible, from the stand- 

 point of the manufacturers, and to consider them as well as their 

 <-nstomers and their clients, in considering the various problems 

 wliich will be presented to them as a result of the labors of these 

 \";irious resolution committees." The reports of committees were 

 called for. 



Committee on Names of Grades Reports 



The first report — that of Committee on Names of Grades — was 

 as follows: 



That the grading of all lumher be divided into three great subdivisions, 

 namely : 



A— representing the Best qualities. 



B- — representing the Intermediate qualities. 



<'- — representing the Common qualities. 



Kealizing the great field for thought in developing an equality of grades 

 in all woods and appreciating the possibility of such accomplishment, we 

 recommend that the National Lumber Manufacturers' Association set \ip 

 a competent committee with efficient engineering service seeking insofar 

 as possible to equalize grades in all woods and that said committee confer 

 with representatives of the consuming public and the Department of 

 Commerce and other departments of the government in their efforts as 

 Ihe (icrjision tlemaniis. 



The Vote 



During a discussion of this report and following a second mo- 

 tion that it be unanimously adopted^ W. L. Saunders, representing 

 the Michigan Hardwood Manufacturers Association, said that he 

 was ojiposed to grouping softwood with hardwood in any manner. 

 ''We feel that our hardwoods should be handled independently of 

 the building group, because our grades, and so on, are so different 

 ind so few in number compared with others, that we see no way 

 t" classify them under the heads as they classify theirs. For thnt 

 n uson, I wish to go on record, as representing the Michigan Hani 

 wood Manufactur<M's Association, as being opposed to being clnsscd 



