24 



HARDWOOD RECORD 



ent high prit-es, but help towards a further 

 strong advance. There is. in fact, no pros- 

 pect for lower prices of timber. Higher prices 

 are inevitable, and all plans for the future 

 must take this fact into account. I do not be- 

 lieve that the impending shortage of timber is 

 fully realized, even by those engaged in its 

 destruction. Its consumption is enormous and 

 its growth slow. But little effort is being made 

 to propagate new timber or to check the un- 

 reasonable waste of what is already grown. 

 The efforts of the general government, aided by 

 the moi-e enlightened lumbermen, to awaken an 

 interest in reforestry is very encouraging, but 

 so far tlte results are meager and the interest 

 manifested is. compared with the values in- 

 volved, very slight. I feel a deep interest in 

 this matter, and it appears to me that every 

 man whose business makes him a tree cutter 

 should, by his example and influence, be a tree 

 planter. But I digress. I am not to read a 

 lecture on reforestry, but on high prices of 

 raw material and low prices obtained for ve- 

 neer. 



A comparison of prices for 1907 with those 



of eight or ten years ago shows four times the 

 price for cottonwood logs, two to three times 

 the price for gum, the same advance in oak, 

 and no limit to the advance in poplar, ash, 

 etc. 



There has been a strong advance in the price 

 of lumber to meet the additional cost of logs, 

 so that in most timbers the sawmill man is not 

 the loser by the high price of timber. Still, 

 contrary to supposition in some quarters, he is 



111-1*- trattirt^r oil tliSr. i\ rt t- n -n ^^ ^ : .-. „..: _ c W. : ™, 



IS 



ply 



not getting all this advance in price of h 

 product for liis additional prolit ; he simpl. 

 insists on fair returns for bis labor and invest- 

 ment. Up is not able to do this because the 

 control of the market is in a few bands. The 

 interests are large and varied and the bu.siness 

 in many hands. 



Now, to get down to what specially interests 

 ns — Is tile v».meer man setting the advance in 

 price for his product that the advanced cost of 

 logs and timber demands, and that the lumber- 

 man is getting for his products, and is he edu- 

 cating his customers up to the realization that 

 prices must continue to advance? There are 

 comparatively few men in the business, there- 

 fore those interested ought to be susceptible to 

 the influence of reason and should have their 

 business well in hand. From the nature of the 

 business, the output is comparatively limited, 

 so the small per cent of profit cannot be made 

 up by a large output. There has been but little 

 improvement in the method of operation, so the 

 additional cost of logs cannot be overcome by 

 the low cost of labor involved. In fact, prob- 

 ably the advance in wages and business expenses 

 during the past few years will fullv offset anv 

 advantage from' improved plants and methods, 

 so that the cost of manufacture, outside the 

 cost of logs, is higher than ten years ago. Are 

 our prices today, in proportion to cost, as high 

 as in past years, or have they advanced in pro- 

 portion to the advance in the price of lumber? 

 It is a safe estimate to say that hardwood 

 lumber has, on an average, doubled in price 

 during the past eight years. Is this the case 

 with veneers? Have they doubled in price, or 

 have they advanced 50 per cent, or even 25 per 

 cent? As to the cheap veneer, cottonwood. gum, 

 maple, etc.. with which I am personally fa- 

 miliar, even the 25 per cent advance is ques- 

 tionable. 



Now, I take it that w-e are making veneers 

 for what there is in it. The country is passing 

 through a period of great prosperity. Are wc 

 handling our business so as to get the benefit 

 of the general good times? If not. why not 

 cut our logs into lumber instead of veneers and 

 get our share of the good things that are being 

 served out? The good times are passing, and 

 if the market w-iil not stand a fair price for our 

 goods, why produce them? I believe the mar- 

 ket will stand a fair price, and that present 

 prices are low is entirely our fault. I think 

 there is hut one trouble, and that is easily lo- 

 cated. The veneer man is too independent ; too 

 suspicious of his neighbor. He insists too stren- 

 uously on paddling his own canoe. I do not 

 advocate combination, nor trusts, nor anything 

 tending to the restraint of trade. I only' advo- 

 cate association in its broad sense. I advocate 

 frequent meetings ; full, free and honest discus- 

 sions of situations and conditions. This is the 

 policy pursued by the lumbermen, and to which 

 they largely owe their success. They have full 

 faith in their brother lumbermen. They know 

 the value of their own stock, know what their 

 neighbor has to oOFer. and are not afraid even 

 to discuss markets and prices with him. There 

 is a spirit of brotherly cooperation between the 

 lumbermen, which, while working no injury to 

 the general public, works a great good to them- 

 selves. The general public is interested within 

 limits in the prosperity of all legitimate business 

 enterprises. Of course, buyers want to pur- 

 chase at the lowest possible figure, but no com- 

 plaint will be made at a fair price for our 

 product as well as for other goods. We should 

 bear iu mind that the time is coming, and 

 coming rapidly, when our local stock of timber 

 will be cut off, and we must, if we continue our 



work, move on to the next supply. This means 

 that we must not only show a reasonable profit 

 on our books, but that we must make such a 

 profit that our plants can be gradually charged 

 olf. Otlierwise, when our forests are gone, the 

 outcome of our years of hard and strenuous 

 labor will be represented by good plants, but 

 with no work for them to do. A mill with no 

 logs is of no value. I am a thorough believer in 

 good prices. This only can bring prosperity. I 

 believe as strenuously in association, for I think 

 that only through association can good results 

 from our business be obtained. I do not mean 

 by association that we shall simply form an 

 association, or even continue this association 

 in existence in a perfunctory manner, but I 

 believe we must get together frequently and dis- 

 cuss the condition of our business, its details, 

 its pleasant sides, and the reverse picture, the 

 high and still higher prices we are paying for 

 logs, and everything entering into our work, and 

 the low price at which we are selling our prod- 

 uct. I believe by this course it will be possible 

 to secure a fair margin on our product and 

 a fair price for anything we have to offer on 

 the market. I believe, on further acquaintance, 

 we will find that our brother veneer manufac- 

 turers are a high class of men, reliable and 

 honest, and in whom we can place full confi- 

 dence, and it is through acquaintance and 

 friendly intercourse that we will be able to put 

 our business on a satisfactory footing. 



Now. I hardly know what to say to the panel 

 contingent in our association. To the casual 

 observer, the interests of the veneer manufac- 

 turer and that of the panel manufacturer are 

 opposed. The veneer man must have a good 

 price for his goods and the panel man wants to 

 buy veneers cheap. I presume a large number 

 of our members are both veneer manufacturers 



E. W. BENJAMIN. CADILLAC VENEEK CO., 

 CADILLAC. MICH. 



and panel makers. These men can easily see 

 the necessity for advanced prices for veneers, 

 and will, without doubt, make good by higher 

 prices for panels. The exclusive panel maker 

 will probably be harder to convince, but there 

 is nothing like yielding gracefully to the inevit- 

 able, and it is certain that the price of veneers 

 must advance. If the panel maker's price is 

 not high enough to absorb this advance, he 

 tnust get more for his finished product. It is 

 simply a matter of business. Prices of veneer 

 must ad.iust themselves to the high cost of 

 logs, high wages and high business expenses, 

 and the prices of panels are subject to the 

 same law. To begin with, we must know what 

 our goods cost. We must know how to figure 

 costs. It will not do to figure cost of logs. 

 say, .^15, labor ,$10, cost ,$25, and then add 10 

 per cent or 25 per cent and think we are get- 

 ting that amount of profit. There are many 

 other things to figure — interest, wear and tear, 

 insurance, a few bad debts, salaries and various 

 other fixed charges that must be paid whether 

 the mill runs or not — and the loss of time and 

 earnings, which comes to all manufacturers. 

 And when you have your cost, don't be afraid to 

 ask a fair price. If you don't ask it you won't 

 get it. Don't be too afraid you will lose an 

 order — better lose some than to take them at 

 too low a figure. Don't take your neighbor's 

 trade by cutting his prices. He will get back 

 at you. There is work for all. Get together 

 and talk matters over and you will soon be 

 able, not onl.v to ask a fair price for your goods, 

 but to get it. Above all, don't be tempted to 



make a low price on an order because it is 

 large — the larger the order the greater the 

 necessity that you figure a profit. It may do 

 lo sell a single car of goods at a loss, but a 

 hundred cars on this basis would be ruinous. 



Now, gentlemen, I hope good to all will re- 

 sult from this meeting and many future meet- 

 ings of this association. I hope we will all get 

 back to our work encouraged, with more confi- 

 dence in ourselves, as well as more in our 

 brother manufacturers, and that the future will 

 bring us good business with fair profits, 



Mr. Kline: Mr. Anderson's suggestion of 

 getting together frequently, becoming bet- 

 ter acquainted and discussing things frankly 

 are, it seems to me, vital to an organization 

 of this kind. If it could be arranged so 

 that we might get together oftener than we 

 do it would be a fine thing. We have 

 practically finished the business of this ses- 

 sion, gentlemen, unless some member has 

 some further matter to bring up. 



Mr. West: I have never met with your 

 association before and I do not know 

 whether or not some initiatory or secret rite 

 is necessary to enable one to do so. But 

 I should like to make out an application for 

 membership. 



Mr. West was duly taken into the organi- 

 zation. 



Mr. Defebaugh: For the benefit of Mr. 

 Anderson I will say that just before lunch- 

 eon we had some discussion on the prices 

 of logs, materials, etc., at the present time. 

 Some were thinking that they were not 

 getting quite enough, and others feeling 

 pretty good because they were getting top- 

 notch prices. 



Mr. S. B. Andersou: I am very sorry that 

 I did not hear that discussion, but the train 

 that Mr. West and I came on was several 

 hours late. I would like to hear the views 

 of anyone in regard to prices. But with 

 the very rapid advance in logs, which is go- 

 ing to continue, the prices on veneers are 

 very low. The sawmill men are making 

 a great deal more money in proportion than 

 are veneer men. I would like to hear the 

 view of anyone on the matter. 



Mr. Kline: The sawmill man is making the 

 prices on timber for the veneer mill man 

 to take; he is putting prices on timber for 

 you and for me, and everyone else. The 

 sawmill man is getting the benefit of the 

 increased prices brought about by his asso- 

 ciations. At any rate he has had things 

 about as he wanted them and made money 

 ■while the veneer man hasn't. There has 

 been no such thing as a proportionate in- 

 crease in the price of veneers as compared 

 with lumber. Lumber has doubled in price 

 within the last few years, and veneers, in 

 line with Mr. Anderson 's paper, have not by 

 any means. 



Mr. B. Anderson: The tendency of buy- 

 ers is to force the price down, and if we 

 don't boost it it will be our own fault. 



Mr. Roddis: Mr. Underwood has just been 

 telling me something that I want to repeat. 

 It isn't the lumbermen alone that are put- 

 ting up' timber. I am a lumberman as well 

 as a veneer man. In our state the principal 

 item of timber left standing is hemlock. 

 Mr. Underwood tells me a large owner of 



