2fi 



HARDWOOD RECORD 



it is a mighty hard proposition to get them lined 

 up definitely. This takes a great deal of can- 

 vassing among people who. you know will be 

 backward about taking hold. The handle manu- 

 ractiu'ers, owing to the various lines, should 

 perhaps be a national organization under the 

 management of a secretary who would take up 

 the different brandies of the business and co- 

 operate with them in monthly meetings. The 

 national association should be practically the 

 hub of the wheel, to educate men to come closer 

 together for the dissemination of information 

 iu the way of timber values, sales conditions, 

 trade — as to what prices are being secured by 

 ccM-iain manufacturers in certain districts, for- 

 eign trade, etc.. but the whole proposition 1 

 think will be best handled in a local way, and 

 confined to particular trades. That has been 

 tried and is successful. It is successful today 

 in the wooden package business, but we do not 

 niiike prices. There is Just a comparison of 

 things that are done, which gives every man 

 the idea that he can do the. same things if he 

 will. You find men who will say, "I can sell 

 my stuff cheaper because it does not cost me as 

 much," and all that, but there is necessity for 

 getting more money in many lines, because 

 timber and labor have advanced so that it is 

 necessary to gain this information and get closer 

 together. Gentlemen, the representation is not 

 as large as I hoped to see it today, but there 

 was never any organization formed where all the 

 trade was present, nor all the interests repre- 

 sented, and I hope from the fact that so many 

 are here from various lines you will not leave 

 this town before you work out your problem and 

 I will be glad to give you any data I have in 

 reference to the various plans to work upon. 



General Discussion. 



Mr. Gibsou then read excerpts from nu- 

 merous letters from handle manufacturers 

 favoring the formation of an association. 



The chairman called for general discus- 

 sion, and several manufacturers responded, 

 giving their views on the organization of 

 a permanent association. 



Mr. Hartwell: I do not know as I have very 

 much to say. I am glad to meet all the gen- 

 tlemen and if my house can do anything to 

 further the organiz.itioi:i of hickory handle 

 manufacturers and put the business on a good 

 basis, we will be willing to do so. As to sug- 

 gestions along this line I do not know that I 

 can go into thi^m iu detail, but there are 

 many things that can be done to help the 

 situation — very many. 



Mr. Alexander: 1 have nothing much to 

 say, but I am sorry our crowd is not as well 

 represented as it should be. Speaking of us 

 as the ash people may be somewhat of a mis- 

 nomer, as we manufacture more maple than 

 ash. I know of at least fifteen or twenty in 

 my section that would be glad to Join this 

 movement and I do not believe we ought to go 

 away from here without making at least some 

 sort of organization so that it can be per- 

 fected by mail or at future meetings. 



Mr. Rugg: I am too far away, perhaps, to 

 be very actively identified with this move- 

 ment. At the same time I am interested in 

 it. I have had experience iit association work 

 and in otlier lines, and have always found 

 them helpful and in good measure, successful. 

 While interests among handle makers are so 

 varied as an association we would have to be 

 organized along somewhat different lines than 

 tliose outlined probablj', yet it does seem as 

 though some kind of patent body, reaching 

 out in different directions, embracing various 

 branches of the trade, could be organized 

 here. I am. a firm believer in co-operation and 

 association if conducted intelligently and 

 fight, and we all need information which we 

 cannot get alone. Yesterday I stopped on the 

 way from Canada to see a competitor who 1 



had been trying to get to make different 

 prices, and had failed utterly. After I had 

 had a conversation with hitn and pointed out 

 my ideas, he admitted frankly that he had 

 been afraid of us and thought we would get 

 his business, but I showed him where he could 

 very easily get an advance in prices and a 

 better profit. I believe something should be 

 done and a movement can be put on foot that 

 will result in accomplishing some good. Per- 

 haps we cannot do very much within this 

 present year but keep the ball rolling, and 

 .*oon we will begin to see a growing attend- 

 ance on our meetings. I presume the plans 

 ,is outlined here are the ones to work along. 

 At the .same time, in the matter of prices I 

 thoroughly agree with Secretary Tatt, who in- 

 timated in a recent address that it was Just 

 as proper (or manufacturers to get together 

 and establish prices for goods, as for tlie 

 labor unions to gather employees together and 

 establish prices at which all shall work. I 

 am sure we need have no fear of government 

 interference if we do nothing that conflicts 

 with freedom of trade. That. I understand, is 

 the pith of the trust law, but we can certainly 

 get together as individuals and establish 

 prices whicli we agree are Just, according to 

 cost. More is to be gained, I believe, from 

 working along lines of information and educa.- 

 tion tlian simply making prices. Those will 

 adjust themsel\-es when we know where we 

 stand. 



Mr. Gregory; I am from Pennsylvania and 

 I would like to s?ee an association formed. I 



E. 11. DEFEP,AiL"GII, CHICAGO. SECKETARY 



NATIONAL VENEER AND PANEL MAN 



UFACTURERS' ASSOCIATION. WHO 



SPOKE ON .\SS0C1AT10N 



WORK. 



have made more money in the last four years 

 than in ten years before from a little asso- 

 ciation I Joined then, but there has been no 

 meeting in the last year or two. I believe. 



Mr. Gates: I suppose that with our small 

 attendance today, there is between seventy- 

 five and eighty per cent of the hickory han- 

 dle product represented in this meeting. We 

 are about where we left off when the old asso- 

 ciation dissolved. A few of us met at differ- 

 ent places on different occasions and we few 

 had to carry all the balance along with us. 

 Plenty of them had interest enough to write 

 nice letters about the association — but not to 

 attend and do anything; .some of them had 

 interest enough to Join the association — and 

 not pay their dues; others had interest enough 

 to join it and help us pass resolutions which 

 they never kept and never intended to. Now 

 finite a large portion liave gone out of the 

 business. Those who didn't lielp us to main- 

 tain prices and undertook to sell goods under 

 cost have failed, of course. Now we listen 

 to another set of men who would like to have 

 us form an association here in Chicago, tell 

 them what to do, explain to them how we con- 

 duct our business to make it pay well, etc., 

 and give them the benefit of our experience, 

 while they have no intention of even attend- 



ing the meetings, mucli less joining an asso- 

 ciation and helping us work it up. If we are 

 going to organize we ought to organize it 

 .along business principles — with the intention 

 of having it strong, putting our money into 

 it, and tnaking a success of it. It is a ques- 

 tion w'hether we can derive enough benefit from 

 it to justify us in such a movement. That is a 

 question we will have to settle here today or 

 else go home without having formed an or- 

 ganization. The price on hickory handles 

 today is high enough. We believe the prices 

 we are getting leave us good profits, and un- 

 der existing conditions we have advanced 

 fifteen or twenty per cent the last year or so.- 

 but I quite agree that there ought to be some 

 arrangement made whereby a uniform grade 

 can be put on tlie market; where there can 

 be an inspector appointed by the association 

 to see that ail companies belonging to it put 

 out a uniform grade of goods — and other de- 

 tails of that kind which we could probably 

 outline a policy for that would be of great 

 benefit to us. There are four or five strong 

 companies today that put their handles on the 

 market at about the same price, but a large 

 number of them are cutting fifteen or twenty 

 per cent. To do that they have had to cut 

 grades. The large buyers won't buy them, 

 .so they call upon us to come and help them 

 out of the mire in which they have 

 l)laced themselves. They are competitors lit 

 prices but in the goods themselves, they are 

 not competitors. I hardly know whether I 

 am in strong favor of an organization or not 

 because I am afraid it will resolve itself into 

 the same kind we had before. Our company 

 is stronger today for being out of the associa- 

 tion than we would be in another organization 

 along the old lines. I know we have been 

 called a "trust" and all that sort of thing so 

 for that reason we hesitate about taking any 

 part in an organization of this kind because 

 there are competitors that will notify tlie 

 trade at once that it is a Turner, Day & 

 Woolworth association, etc.. etc. However, 

 we stand ready if there is one formed along 

 proper lines and Just limits, to do all we can 

 to further it, but if not, we will certainly do 

 all we can to break it up! 



Mr. Peters; I have been in the handle busi- 

 ness for the last forty years. We have had 

 many associations, we have made agreements, 

 and sometimes we even used to go to a 

 ni>tary public and swear to sales, but in spite 

 of this tliere were always mean little tricks 

 and dirty work going on. I am favorable 

 enough to the right kind of an association, 

 but with the handle business it only takes 

 about $2,000 or $3,000 for some one to start 

 into it, and when you take such people into 

 an association it is no time at all until they 

 are hard up, can't meet their obligations, and 

 don't live up to agreements — so it goes. I 

 think the handle business is better today than 

 it has been for rnany years. Some of us in 

 the old association have sort of held together 

 in spite of the fact that it disbanded. 



Mr. Scott; We were members of the old 

 association and it certainly made money for 

 it and for the others that came in, but many 

 came in and derived the benefit by learning 

 what others were doing, went out and raised 

 their prices a little, but with no idea of real 

 co-operation, virtually squeezed the orange 

 ■ dry, as it were, and their dropped out and 

 went back to their old way of doing business. 

 Prices are now where we are making a profit 

 and I don't think they sliould go any higher. 



Mr. Clendinen; Isn't it a fact that those 

 here are those who have profited by the old 

 association? People who Joined for the in- 

 formation they could get which would be ot 

 advantage to them and used it outside cared 

 n(itliing for the work the association intended 

 to accoinplisb. They enjoyed their member- 



