Froceeding.s of the Royal Society of Victoria,. 255 



Mr. White asked Mr. Sutherland upon what statistics he 

 had based his statemeiit that the early convicts were dying 

 out. Not long ago the early criminal records of Tasmania 

 had been sent to xMel bourne and destroyed, and shortly 

 afterwards the same luid been done with those of New 

 South Wales. He would be much relieved if it could be 

 proved that the ciiminal class v.^as dying out, but he was 

 unable to take such an optimistic view, and would like 

 to ask Mr. Suthei'land the basis of his statement. 



Dr. Jamieson said he hardly thought a definition of 

 either criminality or insanity was practicable. He doubted 

 whether there was any definition of insanity except the bald 

 and unsatisfactory^ one that it was some de])artuie from the 

 normal mental condition, about which there could be no 

 doubt. As to criminalit}', he thought thei'e was more 

 difficulty still. The idea of criminality varied indefinitely 

 almost from one generation to another, and in different 

 races. In fact within a very short time it had been made 

 an offence punishable by law to buy or sell a pound of 

 sugar. It was not an offence for a man to sell a cigar or 

 glass of whisky at 8 o'clock at night, but it was an ofience 

 to sell a pound of sugar at that hour. The idea seemed to 

 be that criminalitj- was the doing of certain things which the 

 majority had agreed ought not to be done, and the doing of 

 which should be punished. Such an offence was called a 

 crime. It was well known that there were habitual 

 criminals, people who made it their business to commit 

 offences against the law, but it was difficult to get at the 

 root and origin of this tendency. He believed a great many 

 offences were due to intellectual defects. There was a clear 

 enough distinction between a man being weak and being 

 wicked, but it was quite certain that weakness very soon 

 led to wickedness, and a person who was weak in body 

 or mind ran far greater risk of falling into criminality than 

 a person fairly endowed with mental ability and physical 

 power. The man who was mentally weak was liable to be 

 led into crime by stronger minded and less scrupulous 

 persons, and the man who was weak in body was at a 

 disadvantage iti earning his living, and fell into such straits 

 that he was tempted to break the law and ap])ropriate that 

 to which he had no right. This habit would grow in both 

 cases, and he did not see why a person without any special 

 criminal tendency might not, if constantly exposed to 



