236 OCEANOGRAPHY IN THE UNITED STATES 



Cont^ressmau Oliver. Do you know whether or not there has been 

 any offer of assistance from the Department to other people thro^^^l 

 out of employment by reajson of this deactivation ? 



Captain PIiller. Yes, I believe there were arrangements made, I 

 know my crew membei-s were contacted and given the first refusal on 

 the jobs on the Delaware when it makes a trip requiring two or three 

 more men. I know they have gone out on her. 



Congressman Oliver. So there have been attempts by the Depart- 

 ment to help these men ? 



Captain Hiller. Yes, there has. I learned this morning the men 

 who were on the crew list were getting social security, agamst leave, 

 and they will no longer get tliat. The job is strictly from dock to 

 dock and they no longer get civil service benetits at all. 



Congressman Oliver. Has the crew been dispereed so it is no longer 

 available % 



Captain Hiller. I know they are all out trying to get jobs. I have 

 been down in New York for the past several weeks. I have a good 

 contact w^ith Tidewater Oil and others, but I haven't been able to get 

 a job. This is the first vacation I have had in a long time, and I have 

 been painting my house, but pretty soon I will have to knuckle back 

 down. It has been my personal hope they would get this Albatross 

 going again. 



I don't want to take too much time, but tliis report answ^ere many 

 questions raised by Mr. McKernan and it shows how the Albatross 

 can l>e operated much more economically tlian the Delaware. If one 

 of the ships had to be laid up I don't see why it would be the 

 Albatross. 



There is one other question I would like to ask. I happened to see 

 "Meet the Press," maybe you gentlemen did last niglit, but John L. 

 Lewis was the witness, and he mentioned the Department out in Cali- 

 fornia had 200 men laid off. 



Chairman Miller. The Department of the Interior is a vei'y large 

 office, it has some 1,200 people in it. 



Captain Hiller. I am sure it is, and I am sure this little Fish and 

 Wildlife incident at Woods Hole is a very small part of it. But to 

 me, living in Massachusetts all my life, and having known about it, we 

 are told the economy is being rebuilt, but it seems to me we are going 

 doAvnhill. They have lost their vessel and it seems to me perhaps 

 they won't have the laboratoi-y there any more. 



Congressman Flynn. You are raising for the first time possible 

 economical measures. Plowever, that is more in the nature of hear- 

 say, because it has not been documented and this committee has not 

 been able to make any finding of fact on the evidence before us. I 

 think we would appreciate if you have such evidence it should be 

 offered. Because we can't make any finding of fact on it. 



Captain Hiller. I can't say that is the reason, but I know Avhen 1 

 first joined the ship they had had considerable difliculties between 

 the crew and the shore installation. I think partly because of the 

 fact that members of the crew were earning more money than the 

 scientists who came out on the ship. On the surface it seemed wrong 

 that a common lowly fisherman should receive more money than a 

 professor of biology, but below the surface the fishermen worked 12 

 nours a day, around the clock. They put in more hours, and I think 



