120 ORAL ARGUMENT OF HON. EDWARD J. PHELPS. 



Not a word conld be added to that. Put in the place of tlie whale, 

 which, as I have said, in no way attaches itself to or becomes appurte- 

 nant to any particular property — the seals, if they found in the liords 

 of Norway i^recisely the home that they find iu the Pribilof Islands and 

 there became the basis of the same important industry as the whales 

 are, I should like to know what would be the course of the Government 

 of Norway"? What ought it to be — what would it be, beyond question ? 



Would not that case be a great deal stronger than the one we are 

 concerned with? 



Mr. Gram. — I beg only to observe that that fishery which t have 

 been stating there, which gave use to Diplomatic Correspondence is 

 Cod fish — not whales. 



Mr. Phelps. — I beg your pardon, Sir, I did not understand it cor- 

 rectly. 



Sir Charles Eussell. — It applies to all fishing 1 understand. 



Mr. Gram. — It applies to all fishing; but that instance which I 

 quoted, which was mentioned in the Diplomatic Correspondence, was 

 Cod iishing. 



]\Ir. Phelps. — That is a fact which I did not understand. I Inid not 

 read that, perhaps, as attentively as I should; and indeed, being so 

 ignorant of the surroundings, I might readily fall into an error of that 

 kind. That fact strengthens what I was saying — it carries the prin- 

 ci])le further than if it had been limited, as I sujiposed, from reading the 

 menKu-andum of Mr. Gram, it was limited, namely, to the case of whales. 



Lord IIannen. — As I understand, it is based on this view, that those 

 fiords are territorial waters. 



Sir Charles Kussell. — Quite. That is the real point— just as the 

 large bays in America are claimed. 



Senator Morgan. — There are no territorial waters four miles out. 

 are there? 



Mr. Phelps.— What is the authority for that? 



Sir Charles Russell. — The statement. 



The President. — That may be a case for discussion between nations. 

 It is the assertion of the Norwegian Government. 



Mr. Phelps.— That is exactly what it is. 



Lord Hannen. — I oidy meant to point out they did not base it upon 

 an industry, but they say that it is within their territorial waters. 



Mr. Phelps. — With great submission, My Lord, I respectfully insist 

 that it is exactly the industry upon which they base it. That is all 

 there is of it. What Mr. Gram says is, that they have never adopted 

 the three mile limit. He says some of these fiords, as the map 

 shows, are very wide. I do not find anything in this memorandum, or 

 in the statute, or anywhere else, and I have been commended to noth- 

 ing by my friend's argument, to indicate that they should maintain 

 that, or would undertake to maintain it upon the mere teriitorial limit 

 which the world generally has adopted of three miles wide. It is 

 because those fisheries are made the subject, as is said here, of a great 

 and valuable industry, that they decline to discuss the question whether 

 they are exactly within, or exactly without, a limit which is not for 

 Norway alone to fix. It is not in the power of any one country to fix, 

 in the face of the world, what the territorial limit must be — that must 

 come by the consent of nations. If Norway was to undertuke to assert, 

 or any other country, that the limit should be 50 miles, that would not 

 make it so. No other seafaring nation would be bound by that, if that 

 were all. Nor have they undertaken so far to put forth any assertion 

 in respect to it. Without discussing how wide the fiord is, without dis- 



