ORAL ARGUMENT OF HON. EDWARD J. PHELPS. 223 



in part, by tlie persons I have stated, — and the extent to which they 

 are owned by Americans, who coukl not pursue this business lawfully, 

 so far as Behriug Sea is concerned, at any rate, without being crimi- 

 nally liable and having, therefore, to get vessels registered in the 

 names of British subjects so that they can engage in this business. 



This evidence was brought together in the United States Counter 

 Case in answer to the claim for damages. That was gone into, in order 

 to show that of the vessels for which the British Government demanded 

 comx^ensation, a considerable share were owned by Americans and the 

 facts that are brought out in that I will briefly refer to. 



The vessels that I refer to are the "Hornton", the "Grace", the 

 "Anna Beck", and the "Dolphin", which are steam schooners; the 

 "Sayward",the "Caroline", the "Path Finder", the "Alfred Adams", 

 the "Black Diamond", and the "Lily". Those were in whole or in 

 part — you will find this referred to at page 130 of the Counter Case of 

 the United States — tlie property of citizens of the United States. 



The steam schooners Thornion, Grace, Anna Beck, and Dolphin and oue-lialf of the 

 schooner Sayivard were owned by one Joseph Boscowitz, a citizen of the United 

 States; that James Douglas Warren, in whose name the claim is made as to the 

 steam schooner Thornton, had no real interest therein, but that the same was 

 mortgaged to her full value to Joseph Boscowitz, who was in fact the real owner : 

 and that Thomas H. Cooper, in whose name the claims growing out of the seizures 

 of the schooner TF.-P. Sayward and of the steam schooners Grace, Dolphin, and Anna 

 Beck are made, had in fact no interest therein and has in no respect been demnilied 

 or sustained loss by the seizures thereof, either as owner of these schooners and 

 steam schooners, their outfits, or their catches, the same being mortgaged to their 

 full value to Joseph Boscowitz, above referred to, and having been conveyed to 

 Thomas H. Cooper, without consideration, for the sole purpose of giving them a 

 registry as British vessels. 



It is also insisted by the United States that the schooners Caroline and Pathfinder 

 were in fact at the time of the time of their seizure owned by one A. -J. Bechtel, 

 then a citizen of the United States, and that William Munsie and Frederick Carne 

 in whose names the claims for damages growing out of the seizures of these schooners 

 are made, had in fact no interest in the schooners or their outfits and catches; that 

 the schooners Alfred Adams, Black Diamond, and Lily, for the seizures of which 

 claims are made in the schedule, wore in fact, at the time they were seized, owned 

 by one A. Frank, who was tlien a citizen of the United States; that Gutman, in 

 whose name the schooner ''Alfred Adams" was registered, was not the actual owner 

 of the schooner, her outfit — 



The President. — You argue that only as a moral consideration. It 

 does not change the legal point of view. 



Mr. Phelps. — It does not change the legal point of view as to the 

 general propositions that have been advanced, but it does, I respect- 

 fully submit, enter into the general character of this act, when it is 

 weighed, as a part of the freedom of the sea. 



Senator Morgan. — Suppose the Government of Great Britain ex- 

 pressly authorized these things to be done by American citizens under 

 their law, would that be a moral consideration or legal consideration. 



The President. — Here is no question of special authorization. It 

 is the natural oi)eration of laws. 



Senator Morgan. — It might weU be a case of special consideration, 

 or special authorization, as to be justified under the general law or 

 general relations between the two Governments. 



Mr. Phelps. — These only relate to the seized vessels. We have 

 had no opportunity or occasion to enter into the details of those not 

 seized. The evidence in support of what I have read, which I do not 

 take time to refer to, is cited at the pages I have read, and is all con- 

 tained in the Appendix, and it completely supports what is said about 

 those vessels. It has been asked by my learned friend why the United 

 States have not prohibited the taking of these female seals or sealing 



