110 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — I think tlie evideuce read yesterday was 

 tliey used to take 57,000 before tlie modus virendi and after the modus 

 Vivendi it had fallen to 35,000 and 33,000. That is my recollection. 



Mr, Justice Harlan. — Whicli modus vlvendi. 



Sir EicHARD Webster. — Of 1891, 1892. I do not complain of the 

 interrui)tion. On the contrary, if at any time Mr. Phelps thinks I am 

 wrong or wishes to correct an error I am personallj^ obliged to him, for 

 he once said, Mr. President, in a speech which is classic and historic 

 and which will never be forgotten by any one who heard it that a man 

 who never makes a mistake, never makes anything, and I desire to say 

 nobody is more conscious than I in addressing an argument of this kind, 

 that it is imi)ossible to avoid mistakes and if I by ignorance or want of 

 recollection, make a statement which my learned friend thinks to be so 

 inaccurate that he desires to correct it, I am i)ersonally obliged to him 

 for calling attention to it. The figures I had in my mind were taken 

 from the Kussian correspondence and I thought I was right. 



In the years 1889 aud 1890 before the establishment of the Anglo-American modus 

 Vivendi the catch amounted to 55,915 and 56,833 ; while for the years 1891 and 1892 after 

 the above mentioned agreement the ligures fell to 30,089 and 31,315. 



Therefore apparently assuming the Commander and Eobbeu Islands 

 to be afi'ected by pelagic sealing, between 50,000 and 60,000 is what the 

 Eussians seemed to consider their normal yield. 



Having called attention, Mr. President, to the maps of the United 

 States I am going to ask you kindly to unfold Maps 3 and 4 annexed to 

 the British commissioners' Eeport. There is a preliuiinary observation 

 which ought to be made. You will remember prior to these Commis- 

 sioners' Eeports very little indeed about the seals at sea was known; 

 something, a good deal, was known about the seals upon the Islands, 

 but the British commissioners and the United States commissioners 

 have added considerably— particularly the British Commissioners — to 

 the knowledge of the world with regard to the seals at sea. You will 

 find Map 3 shows approximately, according to the opinion of the British 

 Commissioners the area frequented by fur-seals in the j)eriod extending 

 from July 15 to August 16. The darker coloured area is characterised 

 by abundant s'ealsand the lighter area is characterised by scattered seals. 

 You will notice that the commissioners drew the distinction rather dif- 

 ferently between what I may call abundant seals and scattered seals. 

 It is a little dithcult to follow that area — it is rather larger in some 

 respects. It looks to me in some cases to go out as far. I should think, 

 as 60 or 70 miles, or even further on the north east, but judging from 

 the distance, from the Pribilof Islands, it would seem to me to go some 

 where about half way to Unalaska. 



General Foster. — That is 195 miles. 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — I have stated the distance from the Pribi- 

 lof Islands which is 182. You take 195 — I do not care which it is, 1 do 

 not suggest that these gentlemen are absolutely accurate. They would 

 be the last to wish that I should make any allegation of that kind. 

 They are attacked in the United States Counter Case for having sug- 

 gested that the seals are found scattered over the sea practically con- 

 tinuously — although of course in sparse numbers — from the Pribilofs 

 to the Commanders. I will call attention to that very shortly, and we 

 will see on which side the truth lies in that respect. This Map jST" 4 

 gives a similar sort of area for the Commanders. I remember the 

 British Commissioners did not visit the Commanders till later in the 

 season. If you turn to Map 4, you will find a general distribution of 

 seals over Behring Sea, an opinion more than supported, proved, by the 



