1 14 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



On the return trip to St. Paul Island we again encountered such bad weather that 

 no look-out could be kept for seals. While the ship was laid to, between noon and 

 bj). m. on the i)tli of September, many fur-seals were, however, seen swimming about 

 in all directions. The ship's position at noon that day was latitude 58° 58', longi- 

 tude 177'^ 8' west, about 240 miles Irom St. Paul Island. 



I will not stop to argue whether it is to be presumed that those seals 

 found swimming about there are to be considered as beiug all female 

 seals and each having a pup on the Islands that would perish if those 

 seals were slaughtered. 



I have pointed those out not for the purpose of dealing with general 

 intermingling, not for the purpose of calling attention to the body of 

 evidence to which I alluded when I was addressing you on the ques- 

 tion of property. You will remember, however, Mr. President, what 

 the claim of the United States is, — down to this line 35 and everything 

 east of tliat place where I have left the pointer on the map, longitude 

 180, is claimed by them to be United States property, under regulations, 

 so that no British vessel can catch or hunt seals there at all. I want 

 to know on what evidence my learned friends are going to suggest that 

 both in the Pacific Ocean south of the Aleutian Islands, and in the 

 Pacific Ocean north of the Aleutian Islands, that is to say in Behring 

 Sea, seals which on the evidence I shall submit to you are proved to be 

 scattered across in that sparse kind of way, and having no direct con- 

 nection with the Pribilof Islands at the time that they are so scattered, 

 are to be regarded for this purpose as being the exclusive property of 

 the United States, so that the British sealer, and I suppose, somehow 

 or other, the sealers of other mxtions, are not to be allowed to kill them 

 at all, at any time within those very wide limits to which reference has 

 already been made. 



I ought to mention in connection with the subject I have just left, that 

 the United States Commissioners' Report gives us no statement or infor- 

 mation upon which we can draw any conclusion as to what is the breadth 

 or width of the populous zone, for reasons wliich I suppose are satis- 

 factory to themselves. They have not thought fit to investigate that 

 matter at all. 



Now, I claim, Mr. President, to have established, upon the United 

 States evidence as well as upon the British evidence, that the zone of 

 sea thickly populated by seals in immediate proximity to the Pribilof 

 Islands at a distance which may be taken roughly at 20 miles; but for 

 my i^urpose I care not if you consider, on a review of the evidence, it 

 is 15, 25 or 30, — it is immediately round these islands. My learned 

 friends endeavour to meet us in another way. They say, or rather they 

 would say if they would bring their minds to bear on Regulations prop- 

 erly so-called, — That may be perfectly true, but we say that outside that 

 30 miles there is a certain number of seals, — we say a large number of 

 female seals, feeding or desirous of getting food, and these seals are 

 caught by pelagic sealers in such a condition and at such a time that 

 the life or death of the young upon the Islands is involved in their life 

 or death. 



Now, I was about to consider this question of the females feeding, 

 and the time during which they feed, and the distance to which they 

 go. It is impossible for me to make any assumption as to what my 

 learned friends may ultimately concede in arguing, but I do not propose 

 to go over the evidence in support of the two statements made by the 

 Attorney General yesterday with regard to the male seals, unless I had 

 an intimation that it was going to be seriously disputed. The first is, 

 that the bulls do not feed at all during the time that they are on the 

 Islands; secondly, that, on the United States evidence, the "hollus- 



