ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 169 



(The Tribunal here adjourned for a short time.) 



Sir EiCHARD Webster.— Mr. President, in leavings the British evi- 

 denee upon this question of the dead seals, I think it right to say that, 

 while it is perfectly open to the United States Counsel to criticize any 

 opinions put forward by Mr. Macoun or the British Commissioners, I 

 think it only fair to say, in justice to the evidence I have been reading 

 from Mr. Macoun's Eeport, in every case that I have read it is not a 

 case of mere assertion, but the reasons are given whereby the Tribunal 

 themselves can criticise and form a judgment whether his opinion has 

 been formed on sufticient data. 



Now, I come to 1892; and I read first Mr. Stanley Brown's affidavit, 

 at page 388 of the United States Counter Case. It is important to 

 remember that Mr. Stanley Brown left on the 14th of August, and that 

 in so far his evidence is not so complete as Mr. Macoun's. At the 

 beginning of the deposition, you will observe that he was between June 

 the 9th and August the 14th upon the Islands of St. Paul and St. 

 George. I do not pause to consider which part of the lime he was on 

 St. Paul and which on St. George; I will take it he had practically a 

 continuous opportunity of observing between those dates. Now, turn- 

 ing to page 388, this is what he says: 



Dead pups were as conspicuous by tlieir iu frequency in 1892 as by their numerons- 

 ness in 1891. In no instance was there to be noted an unusual number of dead pups 

 except on the breeding grounds of Tolstoi. 



Til at is the same rookery as that which he had spoken of with 

 reference to the prevalence in 1891. 



Here the mortality, while in no way approaching that of the previous season was 

 still beyond the normal as indicated by the deaths upon the other breeding grounds. 



I pause again to note that they must be confined to Mr. Stanley 

 Brown's observations before the 14th of August, and entirely inde- 

 pendent of subsequent observations taken after the 14th of August 

 and in September. 



Any surreptitious killing of the mothers cannot be charged with it, for such kill- 

 ing either there or anywhere else on the island would have become the gossip of the 

 village and readily detected by the attempt to dispose of the skins. Disease or epi- 

 demics are not known among the seals; and I have never seen cows dead from sick- 

 ness upon the islands. There are no hauling grounds so close to the breeding areas 

 that the driving of the young males could cause consternation among the females 

 during the breeiiing season. Stampedes or disturbances cannot account for it, for 

 not only are the breeding grounds iu this particular case of Tolstoi one-fourth of a 

 mile away from the hauling grounds, namely, at middle Hill (the nearest point to 

 that breeding ground from which seals were driven in 1891 and 1892), but it would 

 be practically impossible to stampede this breeding ground by any disturbing cause 

 save of such magnitude as to be the subject of common knowledge on the islands, 

 and I know that no cause for such a commotion occurred. 



Now if you will turn to the top of page 389 — perhaps the learned 

 Senator will let me call his attention to this. Mr. Stanley Brown 

 seems to me to give a reason, and we will attempt to consider it, 

 though it seems to me, with deference to be an insufficient one. 



The true explanation of the deaths upon Tolstoi this year is not readily found, and 

 must be sought in local causes other than those indicated above, and 1 am confident 

 that to none of those causes can be justly attributed tlie dead pups of 1891 and 1892. 

 The following explanation based upon my acquaintance with the facts is offered in 

 a tentatious way: a glance at the map will show that the location and topographic 

 character of this rookery have no counterpart elsewhere on the island. The rookeries 

 upon which death are infrequent are those which are narrow, and upon the rear of 

 which are precipitous bluffs that prevent the wandering of the pups backward. 

 The larger part of Tolstoi, as will be seen from the map, extends far back, and has 

 great lateral dimensions. Much of it is composed of drifting sands, and it has 

 rather a steep inclination down to the sea. The shore is an open one, and the surf. 



