170 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



either gentle or violent, is almost constantly present. As the time for learning to 

 swim approaches the pups lind it easy to conic down the incline. Tliey Congregate 

 in large nnmlicrs npon the sandy shore, and hegin their swimming lessons. Tliis is 

 at a period when they are still immature and not very stronii'. The huffetingof the 

 ■waves exhansts them, and, coming asliorc, tliey either wander off, or stru.ngliiig a 

 certain distance np tlie incline, made more diliicult of ascent Ijy the loose sand of 

 which it is composed, lie down to rest and sleep, and are overlooked by their motliers 

 returning from the sea. I have seen mother seals go np the entire incline seeking 

 their piijis. 



Now wlietlier this be rijilit or wrongs, it is utterly inconsistent with 

 the exi)]anation that the mothers were killed at sea, because the 

 pelagic sealers would not know whether the mothers had come, from a 

 rookery where the rocks were blufl' and the physical conditions were 

 such that the pup Ayould be found by its mother, or whether from a 

 rookery under different conditions, and, therefore, Mr. Stanley Brown's 

 ex])]anation as to these conditions in 1891 and 1892, which he gives in 

 1892, is inconsistent with the death of the mother seal at sea. 



I have seen mother seals go np the entire incline seeking their pups. I find noth- 

 ing in tlie histoi'y of dead pups npon the islands which does not confirm my belief 

 that the great mortality of the season of 1891 was due to pelagic sealing in Behring 

 Sea. Had it not been so there is no reason Avhy the deaths in 1892 should not have 

 been as widely distributed and ;is great as they were the previous year. 



Mr. President, if Mr. Stanley Brown had had occasion to stay, and 

 had stayed till the middle or the end of September, and had seen what 

 Mr. Macoun saw, I am satisfied with his honesty he would have stated 

 the facts in accordance with what Mr. Macoun saw. I call attention 

 to this that knowing he had some thing abnormal to explain in con- 

 nection with 1892, he exi)lains it upon grounds connected with the 

 physical position of the rookeries — grounds which have no connection 

 at all with pelagic sealing. 



Tlie only other affidavit is Colonel Murray's to be found at page 378, 

 but most unfortunately it is of no value to the Tribunal as it gives no 

 date at all. He does not say when he examined the rookeries, and it is 

 impossible to form any conclusion as to the time he is speaking of when 

 the large numbers occurred. He says on page 378: 



I went over the rookeries carefully, looking for dead pups. The largest number 

 on any rookery occurred on Tolstoi; but here as to the rookeries generally, but few 

 of them were to be seen as com]iared with last year. This was the first time in my 

 four seasons' residence on the Islands that the number of dead pups was not more 

 there than could be accounted for by natural causes. 



Therefore he does not agree with Mr. Stanley Brown, who says he 

 saw more dead pups than was normal — more dead pups than would be 

 accounted for by natural causes, and gives us no evidence at all as to 

 the dates when he examined the rookeries. I do not want to occupy time 

 by taking upon myself a burthen that does not rest upon me; but the 

 learned Senator was good enough to ask me if I had any suggestion 

 to make in regard to this matter, and I think perhaiis that the killer 

 whales ought not to be put out of sight altogether, and I will tell the 

 Court why I think they ought not to be put out of consideration. It 

 may be that the character of the beach in those localities might make 

 the seals more liable to attack from killer whales at that place than 

 others, and certain numbers of motliers might be killed in the water 

 while bathing off the rocks. It used to be supposed that the killer 

 whale never came there till September; but if the Tribunal will turn 

 to page 311 of Mr. Elliott's last Report, tliere will be found a number 

 of instances of killer whales coming much earlier in the year, and no 

 doubt our knowledge on this matter is being extended. 



