ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 177 



I call attention to a catalogue wliich will be exhibited now, of the 

 sales of skins for years; and n\} till 1892 no suggestion of any skins 

 being so described is to be found — 



Lord Hannen. — I suppose, !Sir Richard, I must have missed some- 

 thing: what is the importance of this? If "stagey" seals are found 

 at sea, it proves that they do not need to land to become "stagey'*. 



Sir KiCHARD Webster. — I suppose it is in order to meet the case 

 which the British Commissioners Ijelieved to be the true case — (and 

 our evidence would seem to support it) — that " stagey " seals are not 

 found to any great extent, my Lord, at sea. However, there is only 

 one other reference which seems to me to give the clue to the whole 

 thing. I am reading from the affidavit of JMr. Thomas F. Morgan, at 

 page 377 of the same volume, where he says : 



Filth, grease, aud oil make skius come out of kencli flat, and sucli skins are 

 classed as low wlieu sold. 



Now that shows that the classing of the ''low" skins, which was the 

 other name given for these so called "stagey" skins in 1892, is due to 

 filth, grease, and oil, when the skins come out of the kench (which I 

 believe is something to do with the mode of treatment); and therefore 

 the piece of evidence which has been supplied by the United States in 

 this regard we submit is of no substantial value to rebut the statement 

 that "stagey" skins are only found where the animals have been a 

 long time upon land. 



Lord Hannen. — It would appear from the furriers' statement that 

 there is a difference between "low'' and "stagey". 



Sir Richard Webster.— Well, I should have thought not. 



Lord Hannen. — I should infer that from the way it is entered. 

 Some of them are called "stagey" and some "low". 



Sir Richard Webster. — But in the catalogue, my Lord, which is 

 exhibited by the United States, page 412, I read the w^ord "low" to be 

 a synonym for "stagey". Perhaps you would not mind looking at it 

 again. 



Lord Hannen. — Certainly; what is the page? 



Sir Richard Webster.— 412. It is put in brackets. This is the 

 only evidence. We have to draw our own conclusions in regard to it. 



The President. — "Low" is generally of inferior quality, I believe? 



Sir Richard Webster.— So I understand it. 



The President. — And stagey skins are always "low", though 

 "low" ones are not always " stagey". 



Sir Richard Webster. — They mean by that use of the word 

 "stagey" that they are not in good condition. That is what I read 

 and understand that extract to be. I think it is not an unfair thing to 

 say, Mr. President, when this evidence is produced in the Counter 

 Case, and when there is prior to the period of the United States 

 Counter Case no evidence at all of stagey seal being found at sea dur- 

 ing that time, I think it will be some warrant for the argument I am 

 using. 



Mr. Carter.— You observe the date is 1892. 



Sir Richard Webster.— I so stated. I stated 1892. 



Mr. Carter. — That was before the Counter Case was prepared. 



Sir Richard Webster. — I beg my friend's pardon. 



Mr. Foster.— It was the 31st of March, 1892. 



Sir Richard Webster. — My friends must not misunderstand me. 

 I am not suggesting that the catalogue is not genuine, or anything of 

 that kind. They misunderstand me. My point is that desiring to get 

 B S, PT XIV 12 



