ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 187 



from those ports, and not be allowed to catcli seals anywhere before 

 the first May. 



Lord Hannen. — Down to the Equator. 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — I was really dealing with the area in 

 question. 



Lord Hannen. — And I was exaggerating, of course. I wanted to 

 know if you meant there was not to be any limit of area. 



Sir KiCHARD Webster. — I do not want to pass an argument 

 strongly in my favor, but that bears strongly on the question of ambit 

 under Article VII, but vessels leaving for sealing in the gulf of Alaska 

 and Behring Sea, should not clear till the 1st of May, and not enter 

 Behring Sea until the 1st July. Those are two questions as to time 

 which we, desirous to assist this Court honestly and fairly, and not to 

 put a case to see how much we can get out of it, have considered to be 

 fair, and if an advocate may say so, have made a judicial suggestion 

 with reference to the matter in this regard. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — Your suggestion would leave schooners clear- 

 ing from British Columbia in America on the 1st May entirely free from 

 that time forward in the North Pacific and in the Aleutian i)asses. 



Sir Eichard Webster. — I do not know. In the Aleutian passes 

 the evidence is universal that, except for an Indian in his canoe, no 

 pelagic sealing is possible in the Aleutian passes, and if you look at 

 the photograph of the Aleutian passes and see the sea lunning through 

 like a mill-race, you would see that any pelagic sealing in boats is an 

 impossibility. It has not been carried on in the Aleutian passes by 

 any pelagic sealers. Now 1 want to make this observation. 



We were asked, why not stop sealing until a certain day instead of 

 sailing on a certain day, because from experience it has been found to 

 be extremely difficult effectively to guard against breaches of such 

 rules. You have to trust men of not the highest moral character, 

 though they have, of course a certain amount of self-respect and good 

 feeling; but to say that you may go out during the month of April, 

 providing that you do not seal, the vessel being equi])ped for sealing is 

 rather tempting under certain circumstances, especially if a good many 

 seals were about. And I do not think that you, Mr. Presiclent or any 

 member of the Tribunal, will think it is any worse to lay down or sug- 

 gest a Eegulation that will work effectually rather than one which can 

 be evaded. 



It does seem to me to be a suggestion that the vessels should clear 

 from those ports not before the first of May would ensure for reasons 

 I will briefly submit to-morrow, the advance herd of female seals being 

 safely in Behring Sea before they can be attacked. 



Sir John Thompson. — I understand your view to be that licenses 

 should be only procurable as regards-British subjects at certain ports. 

 I do not know if you have mentioned the United States ports. 



Sir Eichard Webster. — No, I have not, but it was not because I 

 had over looked it. It was, because I did not think the Tribunal would 

 think I was departing from the lines laid down by the Attorney' Gen- 

 eral. I think the license system is most important, and also that they 

 should be obliged to keep logs. 



Sir John Thompson. — But you have not mentioned the names 

 because it might involve a difference in the time of starting. 



Sir Eichard Webster. — San Francisco and Port-Townsend in the 

 United States and Vancouver and Victoria in British Columbia. I am 

 not sufficiently expert to know if some other time should not be allowed 

 with reference to those places, but it is a question to be calculated. 



Lord Hannen. — You must suggest something in reference to it. 



