ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 209 



time pelagic vsealing' coiTld make the sizes run down. The sizes running- 

 down means tliat smaller seals are being killed upon the land; and that 

 diagram of the very large proportion of small seals which were being 

 sold in the years ISSo up to 188!) is proof of what actually was occur- 

 ring with rei:ard to these very seals when the skins were taken. The 

 consequence is that it was not that there were less young seals, but 

 there was a much larger ])roportion of the young seals to the old ones. 

 The old seals were being killed, and that was the stock from which the 

 bulls were to be drawn. 



Mr. President, kindly remember that this case I am now making is 

 independent of any suggestion or anything based upon Mr. Elliott's 

 report, although I will show this Tribunal that the suggestion that Mr. 

 Elliott's report is to be regarded with suspicion or disfavor is an unworthy 

 suggestion, and never ought to have been made even hypothetically by 

 any one ajjpearing for the United States. 



Then on page lioO Dr. Uall in 1891 — I do not know whether that is 

 the same Dr. Dall that makes the affidavit for the United States, but I 

 believe it is : 



Dr. Dall attributes the present decline of the fur-seals chiefly to the excessive 

 killing of young males; there is not now a sufficient number of males; in the breed- 

 ing grounds to nmintaiu the sjiecies. He admits that the method of driving referred 

 to by Mr. Pnlmer is also very destructive. The excessive destruction of males began 

 in 1872 and it has continui d to the present time. 



And in a letter written on the 5th of ]S"ovember, 1891, he says further: 



Wliat I did say was to intimate that after the killing in the open sea (the most 

 important fact in the diminution) the second factor was the killing of too mnny 

 young males rather than tlie injuries caused by driving; the latter being a view 

 much insisted on by Mr. Palmer. 



I will call attention later on, I am afraid I must, say this afternoon, 

 to the condition of driving; and my learned friends will have also to 

 bear the brunt of that when they come to deal with this question of 

 increase. It is in my favor that these gentlemen are opponents of 

 pelagic sealing. It is in my favor that these are the men who wished 

 pelagic sealing to be suppressed. From the fact that they did wish 

 pelagic sealing to be sup])ressed all the more important is their testi- 

 mony with regard to the other potent cause at work ; and this is a cause 

 admitted by the United States Commissioners to be one of the causes 

 which would directly affect the life and the numbers of the seals upon 

 the islands. 



Now, Mr. President, there is a very important piece of evidence in 

 this matter from Mr. Mclntyre's affidavit on behalf of the United States, 

 at page 293 of the collated testimony : 



The policy of the Alaska Commercial Company during the whole period of its 

 lease was, as might be naturally expected, to obtain the best possible skins for 

 market, and at the same time preserve the rookeries against injury; for it was not 

 only in their interest to be able to secure from year to year until the expiration of 

 tlie lease the full quota allowed by law, but they confidentlv expected by reason of 

 their good management of the business and the faithful fultillmeut of every obliga- 

 tion to the Government to obtain the franchise for a second term. I was therefore, 

 alert to see tbatthedue proportion of breeding males of serviceable age was allowed 

 to return to the rookeries. This was a comparatively easy task prior to 1882, but 

 became from year to year more difficult, as the seals decreased. No very explicit 

 orders were given to the "bosses" ujion this point until 1888, because the bulls 

 seemed to be plentiful enough, and bccaiise it was easier to kill and skin a small seal 

 than a large one, and the natives were inclined for this reason to allow the larger 

 ones to escape; but in 1888 and 1889 there was such a marked scarcity of breeding 

 males on the rookeries that I gave strict orders to spare all live year old bulls and 

 confine the killing to smaller animals. 



B S, FT XIV 14 



