ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M, P. 211 



nent part in the formation of the harems at all. Would you listen to 

 this afiidavit of Mr. Stanley Brown, the special gentleman sent to 

 investigate and rei3ort on this matter. 

 He says: 



It ia the cow which takes the initiative. She is in the water beyond the reach or 

 control of the male, and can select her own point of landiuj:;-. Her manner on coming 

 ashore is readily distinguished from that of tlie young males which continuously 

 plav along the sea margin of the breeding grounds. She comes out of the water, 

 carefully noses or smells the rocks here or there like a dog, and then makes her way 

 to the bull of her own selecting. 



The evidence is that the bull drives her to it, and very often takes 

 her in his mouth and makes her come and obey him, and chastises her 

 if she does not lie down. 



Mr. Carter. — Where is that evidence? 



Sir Richard Webster. — I will give it you in a moment; it has been 

 given in evidence over and over again. 



Lord Hannen. — When on' shore? You seem. Sir Richard, to speak 

 of it as though the female were out of the water. 



Sir KiCHARD Webster. — I think there is actually evidence in some 

 cases, that the bull even does that. 



Now Mr. Stanley Brown says : 



In this incipient stage of her career on shore there is but little interference on the 

 part of the male, but once well away from the water and near the bull she has 

 chosen, he approaches her, manifests liis pleasure, and greetings are exchanged. 



I will not overlook the point, my Lord — I believe instances are given 

 in the Affidavits of tlie bull even taking the female as she comes to the 

 edge of the water; but whether that be so or not, immediately on her 

 coming out of the water, there is as I shall show presently, abundant 

 evidence. But 1 am dealing now with this statement by way of contrast. 



In this incipient stage of her career on shore there is but little interference on the 

 part of the male, but once well away from the water and near the bull she has 

 chosen, he approaches her, manifests' his pleasure, and greetings are exchanged. 

 She then joins the other cows and as soon as dry lies down and goes comfortably to 

 sleep. I have seen this selective power exercised repeatedly and the result is that 

 one bull will be especially favored, while those within fifteen or twenty feet will be 

 ignored. 



Senator Morgan. — That brings out the point that I had in my mind : 

 It seemed to me that an excess of bulls upon the rookeries would be 

 quite as dangerous to seal-life, pups, and female seals in their battles 

 and fightings as the proposition you are arguing now, namely, want of 

 sufficient number. 



Sir Richard Webster. — I ask you. Senator, kindly to give your 

 attention to the matter: when we know enough to be able to say what 

 is the right and exact proportion so that we may inculcate peace, and 

 not quarreling among the bulls, and still get the best bulls, perhaps 

 that is a claim which the United States, from a moral point of view, 

 may be able to advance. If they are able to advance it, well and good. 

 But will you kindly, m justice to me remember Avhat the United States 

 Commissioners have said ? Tlie United States Commissioners have said 

 that want of sufficient virile males will produce deterioration to the 

 herd. It is not a question of what ought to be the condition, but what 

 is the cause of the present condition of the herd? 



Senator Morgan. — I do not feel bound by the opinion of the United 

 States Commissioners or by the opinion of any other man from which I 

 dissent. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Nobody suggests. Senator, that you are 

 bound by anybody's opinion or view except your own; but I do say, in 



