ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 227 



Sir EiriiAED Webster. — Yes, tliat must be so. 



The President. — A limitation of the number. How could you limit 

 the number at sea. 



Sir liiCHAED Webster. — We know perfectly well that that limits 

 itself to a very large extent, but 1 am sure you will allow your mind to 

 follow the line on which I desire to argue. I point out that the diminu- 

 tion of the seal life upon the islands is not due and cannot be due to 

 pelagic sealing-. 



Lord Hannen. — That is with reference to what regulations should be 

 made, and then arises the difficulty of api)lying it. 



Sir llicHARD Webster. — I will point it out, of course, at the end, 

 but perhaps I may be permitted to make the observations before. 



Our contention is it is not intended you are to regulate pelagic seal- 

 ing so as to enable 100,000 or any other maximum nund)er to be taken 

 upon the islands. You are not to regulate pelagic sealing to allow au 

 excessive quantity to be killed upon the islands. You are to regulate 

 so as to do what is necessary, as far as pelagic sealing is concerned, to 

 prevent the extermination of the herd. That does not mean that they 

 are to exterminate them upon the islands; and you, Mr. President, have 

 been so good as to show you have been following uie. Take this case. 

 Suppose it is true there is only one breeding bull instead of 15, it means 

 that a large number of cows will not be effectually served, and a great 

 many more cows will fail to bear pups, and consequently many of the 

 cows will not come back to the islands again, by reason of not having 

 a pup, and therefore not having the instinct which induces them to 

 return. This has a direct bearing on the question of the maintenance 

 of sufficient supply of virile bulls. Now page 104 he refers to the 

 driving: 



Ever since 1879-82 tlie siirplxis young male seal life has been sensibly feeling the 

 pressure of the overland death drive, and tlie club; harder and harder became this 

 ^vrctched driving to get the (luota in 1883-84; linally when 1886 arrived, every nook 

 and cranny on these islands that had hitherto been visited by the "holluschickle " 

 in peace was now daily searched out. — close up back of, and against the breeding 

 rookeries, under every clift" wall by the sea, over to South- West Point, and to Otter 

 Island, and even the little islet, Seevitchik Kamman, under the lee of the Reef was 

 regularly hunted out. 



I need not have read that passage in such detail, but I will tell you 

 how 1 will deal with that part of the case. I shall show you by the 

 reports of Mr. Elliott, I shall show you by the report of Mr. Goff, I shall 

 show you by the report of Mr. Murray, that instead of being able to 

 get from 50 to GO per cent killable seals out of a drive they were only 

 able to get 14, 15, and IG per cent. 



They were turning back as much as from 8G toOOper cent of the seals 

 driven, so that the youngest seals and those less able to bear the strain 

 of driving were being rapidly driven to force up this quota of 100,000 

 seals out of the su})ply that was on the islands. I do not hesitate to 

 put before the Tribunal that that does mean a serious injury to the life 

 of a seal; and ai)plying all general i)rinciples the seal is not likely to be 

 such a good bull when he comes to the time of service, as he would be 

 if not over-driven. 



The President. — How do you explain the quota? If there are less 

 young seals one would think the i^roportiou of those taken and kept 

 would have been smaller. 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — That is exactly the point to which I desire 

 to bring your mind. If it was true tliat pelagic sealing year by year was 

 liilUng the pups, the proportion of the young-, or one-year-oldj to the 



