236 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



a fonr-yeur-old seal of the size tLat was Leinj^ killed was allowed to go free, as the 

 skill liad been iujnred. A wounded orbleedinjij seal was to l)e seen in nearly every 

 small pod of from thirty-live to fifty that passed through tlie hands of the clnbbers. 

 Tliere were, of conrse, many others that bad blood on them that had come from the 

 killed or wounded seals, but on the seventeen referred to above the wounds could 

 be plainly seen. 



At the killing of the 25th of July one young seal escaped with a broken nose, and 

 another with an eye hanging out. Such tilings attracted no attention from either 

 the natives or the officer of the Gloveninient or Company, being apparently con- 

 sidered by them to be quite matters of course. 



I noticed at every killing on St. Paul Island at which I was present, that as each 

 little pod of seals was driven from the killing ground to the lagoon 20 or 30 yards 

 away, one or more lagged behind the others, moving with great difficulty, and by 

 means of their fore-llippers only, as if their backs or hinder parts had been hurt in 

 some way. They seemed to revive after the water was reached, and it was not pos- 

 sible for me to determine whether the injury was of a kind that would affect them 

 permanently or not. 



No Ijotter proof of the injury done to seals by driving could be had than to walk 

 along the route followed by tiiem when driven from a hauling-ground to the killing 

 ground. The ground is on all sides strewn Avith bones; and if there has been a 

 recent drive, many rotting carcasses are also to be seen. The day after a drive from 

 Middle Hill I walked for about a mile from the salt-house along the route over which 

 the seals had been driven, and found seventeen carcasses of seals that had become 

 overheated, and had been killed so that their skins might be saved. I found one 

 dead seal lying in a small pond of water, about a mile from the killing grounds, 

 through which the seals had been driven; it had no doubt become exhausted, and, 

 lying down there, had escaped the notice of the drivers. The fur was still good. 

 The carcasses referred to above were all of animals of the size of which the skins 

 would be of the weight required by the Company, and much better able to bear the 

 fatigue of the long drive than the younger ones. 



As actual counting at four fillings show that less than 20 per cent of the seals. 



This is very important in reference to wliat was snbsequently dis- 

 covered as the observations of Mr. Elliott, Mr. Goft", Mr. Lavender, and 

 Mr. Mnrray in the year 1890, of which Mr. Macoun had no knowledge 

 when his (Mr. Maconn's) Report was written. 



As actual counting at four killings show that less than 20 per cent of the seals driven 

 were of what the Agents of the Company considered a killable size, the number of 

 young seals hurt Avhile being driven must be very great, but not, I think, greater 

 than those injured when the seals are huddled together surrounded liy the clabbers. 

 With no escape in any direction they draw nearer one another, until they are at last 

 crowded so closely together that little more than their heads are visible, except when 

 one of the larger seals struggles out from among the others; if of a killable size, it 

 is knocked on the head and falls back into the struggling mass. The "pod" is con- 

 tinually poked and stirred up by the clubber, in order that the seals may be kept 

 moving and when all that are of the proper size have been clubbed the others are 

 driven from the killing grounds, with cries from the clubbers and the beating of 

 pans by the attendant boys. If by chance a "killable" seal escapes with the 

 younger ones, a club is thrown at it, and though many are struck in this way, I 

 never saw one stunned or prevented from reaching the lagoon, a short distance 

 away. Whether such seals receive permanent injury it is impossible to say, but the 

 throwing of the club at them always appeared to me an act of wanton cruelty or 

 a sort of pastime to amuse the clubbers while the next "pod" of seals was being 

 driven up. 



While the seals were huddled together on the killing ground the clouds of steam 

 rising from them shewed plainly the over-heated condition of the animals. 



Sir, there are before the Tribunal photographs of these animals while 

 they are being driven. Yon will find at pages 30 and 31 of the original 

 Census report of Mr. Elliott the description of the way in which these 

 animals move, and I must say I think in the face of this evidence the 

 statement that the pelagic sealer was a man actuated by a taste for 

 cruelty was rather nnfortunate in the argument of the United States 

 speaking of this in the knowledge of the evidence we now have before 

 us I do not think that those who are so enamoured of this method of 

 killing on the islands, can boast very much on the score of cruelty. 

 Probably it had better be left out of the argument altogether so far as 



