ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 237 



tbey are concerned. But Mr. President in this connection will you be 

 good enough to look at the corroboration from Mr. Elliott's report of 

 this matter aud 1 will ask you to look at page 104. Again I am not 

 pretending- to read all the paragraphs, but there are some here I wish 

 to direct attention to. 



Ever siuce 1879-82 the stirplus young male seal life has beeu sensibly feeling the 

 pressure of the oveilaud death drive, and tlie club; harder and harder became this 

 wretched driving to get tlie quota in 1883-84; finally when 1883 arrived, every nook 

 aud cranny on these islands that hijd hitherto beeu visited by the " holluschickie " 

 in peace was now daily searched out,— close up baclc of, and against the breediug 

 roolieries, under every clitf wall by tlie sea, over to Sonth-West Point, and to Otter 

 Island, and even the little islet, Seevitchik Kamman, under the lee of the Reef was 

 regularly liiiuted out. 



Every three-year old, every four-year old and every well-grown two-year old male 

 seal has been annually taken here during the last two years within a day or two at 

 the latest after it showed up ou the beaches, and iu the rear of rookeries, prior to 

 the 26th-3l8t, July. 



In 1872 the killable seals were permitted to " haul up " in every sense of the word; 

 they hauled out far inland from the sea; in 1890, the few killable seals that appeared 

 never had time iu which to " haul up" over the land, — they 8im])ly landed, and at 

 the moment of landing were marked aud hustled into a drive; up to the 20th of July 

 last summer, from the day of their first general hauling as a body iu June, this class 

 of seals never had an opportunity to get wonted or accustomed to the laud, — never 

 were permitted to rest long enough to do so alter lauding. 



Then page 118 he is describing the driving which had been i)reviously 

 spoken of in his old Census Keport. 



Such was the number aud method of the young male seals in 1872-'74: it is very 

 difterent to day: from the hour of the first driving of 1890, May 21st up to the close 

 of the season, July 20th, all the driving was regularly made from rookery grounds — 

 from the immediate margins of the breeding animals with the solitary exception of 

 that one place. Middle Hill, English Bay, St. Pauls Island. Not a drive made else- 

 where in the course of which cows and puj^s and bulls were not disturbed and 

 hustled as the young males wore secured. 



I call attention to the fact of females being included in the drive with 

 reference to some further evidence later on. Then follows on page 118 

 and 119 a passage as to the driving- of cows on which I rely, but which 

 is not very nice reading. 



General Foster. — There is an omission there in the next sentence. 

 "As long- as the breeding- season was unbroken" — the omission is, "was 

 at its height, and the compact organization of the rookeries was." — 



Sir KiCHARD Webster. — I am much obliged. IS^ow look at the bot- 

 tom of this page, 



Last season, during that desperate effort made then to get the catch of 100,000, 

 parties were regularly sent over to drive the holluschickie off from Seevitchie Kam- 

 nien, from Otter Island. 



That is not unimportant with reference to the effect on the habits of 

 seals of this driving on the islands. 



When I expressed my surprise at this ferocious driving begun early in .Tune, I was 

 met by ajiparent equal siujirisc on the part uf the drivers, who Avondering at my 

 ignorance, assured me that they had been driving seals in this method ever siuce 

 1885. — "had been obliged to, or go without the seals"! 



The driving itself, in so far as the conduct of the natives conducting the labor was 

 concerned, was as carefully and well done as it could be ; they avoided to the very best 

 of their ability any uudue urging or hastening of the drive overland from the rook- 

 eries; they avoided, as nearly as they could, under the circumstances sweeping up 

 pods of cows and pups — did all that they could to make as little disturbance among 

 the breeding animals as possible : l)ut even with all their care and sincere reluctance 

 to disturb the rookeries, cows were repeatedly taken up in their scraping drives on 

 the margins of all the rookeries aud their puj)s left tioundering behind to starve and. 

 perish ultimately. 



The manner to-day of driving overland to the killing grounds is unchanged from 

 the methods of 1872, but the regular driving from every spot resorted to by the hoi- 



