238 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



Inscliickie on Ijotli islands has cansed the establishment of killins? grounds and a 

 salt liouse as early as 1879 at Stony Point (Toukie JMees), and a slaughter field at 

 Zapadnie on St. Paul the skins being taken from the latter point by a bidarrah to the 

 village; (whieh was sent over from there every time a killing ^Yas made) and are now- 

 hauled down in wagons, (mule teams) from the Ibrmer locality, to the salt houses of 

 St. Paul. 



I^J'ow tliese are facts stated, T admit, to Mr. Elliott on the information 

 of the people in the islands tliat the change took place as early as 1879, 

 and. another change later on. If this was to be contradicted it onglit 

 to be contradicted categorically, and by people who knew. Then if 

 you will turn to pages 14G and 147 and you will find some imiiortant 

 percentages showing that which I enforced on the Tribunal on Friday 

 last, the increasing proportion of small instead of the decreasing pro- 

 portion of small, which would have been the consequence if pelagic 

 sealing was at the root or had been the real cause of this mischief. 

 Thus the bottom of 140. 



Average percentage of seals " turned " out from the driven " pods " seasons of 1872- 

 1874, including nothing l)ut 7 to 12 lb skins taken from the start to the iinish. 



General Foster. — It is 1872 to 1874, inclusive. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Of course it is. 



General Foster. — It is inclusive of years, not of pounds. 



Sir Richard Webster. — For this purpose it is not material. The 

 point is they were taking from 7 to lH pound skins, and not snuill ones. 



From June 5th to the 15 inclusive, 5 per cent to 8 per cent of each 

 driven herd. From June 15th to June 3(>th, 10 per cent tol-J per cent. 

 From July 1st to the 15th 35 per <!ent to 40 per cent. From July 15th 

 to July I'Oth, CO per cent to 75 per cent. 



Now the corresponding dates in 1890 were up to the 4th July only 7 

 to 12 iwund skins were being taken; and then 5 pound skins. From 

 June 5tli, to the 15tli 60 j)er cent to 70 per cent of each driven herd 

 driven back. From June 15th, to June 30th, 70 to ^o per cent. From 

 July 1st to July 15th, 85 per cent to 90 per cent. And then, even after 

 the lowering of the standard from July 15th to July 20th, 90 per cent 

 to 93 per cent turned back. JSTow these facts are spoken to by the man 

 who had seen them and are, in my submission to this Tribunal, of more 

 value than any number of opinions of people who had no previous 

 experience and simply say what they think with regard to the effect ol 

 driving upon these animals. Then, if you will kindly turn to page 

 248, this is with regard to the rookery of Polavina on the 3rd July: 



Visited this rookery ground and surveyed the area and position of the breeding 

 animals in company with ]Mr. Goft\ 



My final survey of this rookery shows it to be one of the two rookeries only which 

 seem to have suffered only half in loss of form and numbers. I can not avoid the 

 conclusion, however, that this rookery like Zapadnie, has been cruelly driven during 

 the last four or five seasons, perhaps the last eight years, since the chief hauling- 

 grouuds always laid up behind the breeding lines of Polavina; therefore, when the 

 shrinking of holluschickie began, the scraping of the large semicircular edge of 

 Polavina Rookery commenced in earnest, since the young males naturally do here as 

 they do everywhere else on this island to-day, they lie up closer and closer to the 

 lines of the breeding seals. 



Then, beginning at paragraph 207 going on consecutively to 283, I 

 press upon the Tribunal the importance of this evidence. There are 

 tables of the actual counts of the numbers taken, the numbers killed 

 and the numbers turned away day by day written down as they occurred 

 in the presence of these very Government Agents, and that extends 

 from the 23rd June up to the 20th July, the last rlate of an actual record ; 

 that is 25 days of actual observation— of course, not consecutively, but 



