ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 239 



wlieii tlie drives liave occurred, and the Tribunal will find, if tliey will 

 be good enough to study those tables, corroboration which with great 

 respect, my learned friends will not be able to dispute. I will call atten- 

 tion to my point as I pass on briefly. I will take page 273, 78 per cent 

 rejected; that is the 27th June. Page 275, on the 28tli June, 85 per cent 

 turned away; page 270, on the 30th June, 84 per cent turned away (I 

 leave out fractions); page 277, on the 1st Jnly, 00 per cent rejected, or 

 rather 85 per cent rejected, and 00 i)er cent of those were yearling pups; 

 page 278, 88 1/2 per cent rejected on the 2nd July; page 271), 91 rejected 

 on the 3rd July, and on the same day 81 per cent at another ])lace. On 

 the 4th July, page 281, UO 1/2 per cent rejected; on the 7th July, page 

 282, 92 per cent rejected. My learned friends will understand that I 

 will read every one if they wish it, bnt it makes it clear that what was 

 going on was that there had been a reckless slaughter of the hollu- 

 schickie, i^erfectly independently whether or not there were suftlcient 

 male lives on the rookeries, in srpieezing these unfortunate rookeries so 

 as to get these 100,000 seals j>er annum. 



Kow at page 251 of this report occurs a passage which ought to be 

 read. Yon will remember a man named Webster, whose conversation 

 with regard to the size of the harems is quoted in the United States 

 commissioner's report, but his affidavit is absolutely silent as I pointed 

 out to you the other day with regard to the size of the hiirems subse- 

 quently but there is a statement on pages 250 and 251, the one I am 

 referring to which seems to me to be of imj)ortance. It is under the 

 date of 25th Jnly. 



Daniel Webster is the veteran white sealer on these islands; he came to St. Panl 

 in 1868, and, save the season of 1876 (then on a trip to the Russian Seal Islands), he 

 has been sealing here ever since, beinc; in cliarge of the work at North East Point, 

 annually, until this summer of 1890, when he has conducted the killing on St. George. 

 He spoke very freely to me this afternoon while calling on me and said there is no 

 use trying to build these rookeries up again so as to seal here as has been done since 

 1868, unless these animals are ])rotected in the North Pacific Ocean as well as in 

 Behring Sea; on this point the old man was very emphatic. 



That is an imjiortant point as showing impartiality in this matter. 



Webster came ashore on St. Paul island in the spring (April) of 1868, an employd 

 of Williams and Havens, of New Loudon, Ct. He took charge of the sealing then 

 begun on behalf of this firm at Novastoshuah or North East Point. Hutchinson, 

 Kohl and Co. had the only other party up there at that time. This was the first 

 irregular sealing ever done upon this island since 1801. 



Webster said that H. K. and Co. and he took over 75,000 young male seals at N. E. 

 Point alone, that summer of 1868, and only st()]>ped work from sheer exhaustion of 

 their men, who were not only jihysically " used up," but also they had used up all 

 their salt and had no suitable means left of saving any more skins. 



When, then both parties stopped work he said that no apparent diminution of the 

 number of holluschickie was evident to any of them ; and that this fact created much 

 comment; he declares that there has never been so many seals on that ground since 

 that "although there Avas a fine showing of seal, Mr. Elliott, when you were there 

 in 1872, yet there never has been so many there as in 1868." 



He says that ever since 1876-77 he has observed a steady shrinking of the hauling 

 grounds at North East Point a ver^- rapid contraction during the last six years, 

 esiiecially rapid since 1887-'88. 



That he never agreed with the statement recently made of the great increase of 

 seals over my record of 1872-'74; but on the contrary has always said that no increase 

 ever followed it, and that he always said so to both Treasury and company agents 

 whenever questioned he declared a steady diminution; he says that when down in 

 San Francisco last (about 5 years ago, winter of 1885-'86) he was not asked any 

 questions by anybody as to the incre;ise of seals, and he volunteered no information; 

 if he had been asked, he would have spoken his mind freely. 



Webster says that in 1872-'74 he was then able to get all the hollnschikie he wanted 

 from that sand beach on the North shore of the ''Neck" at N, E. I'ojut never went 

 auj" where else for them, or near a rookery. 



