240 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



'Now world you kindly turn over to page 303. A conversation was 

 held on the Gtli August in tlie presence of all four Government Agents 

 Murray, ]Srettleton,Goff the ordinary Agents and Mr, Elliott tbe special 

 one. Colonel Murray took the notes and lie is the Colonel Murray 

 whose report I have read. I need not read though I commend to the 

 notice of the Tribunal the whole of this conversation, but I turn to 

 bottom of page 302. Where there is an answer by George Booterin 

 one of the witnesses examined. Their names are given on page 300 

 and you will find it stated they are the men who had been longest on 

 the island. 



They are Artamonov, Booterin, Sedoolie,Vollkoy,Korchootin, Sedick. 



I began to see in 1877 tbat this trouble was abeacl, but whenever I or my people 

 spoke about it we were told by the company men "Americans" (sic) that it was not 

 of our business and we must not talk about it. Whenever we talked about the seals 

 the company men threatened to send us away from the island. 



Qi(estion. (By Mr. Golf to Booterin.) Was that the reason you would not talk to 

 me last year? 



Answer. I hardly remember now why I did not like to talk about the seals. 



Question. What do you men think of the efl'ect on seal life of xhe driving of the 

 seals? 



Answer. When the old Russian Company drove, and the drives came in here, they 

 never killed anything over a three-year-old; all over that were either never dis- 

 turbed, or else spared ; and if the same thing had been practiced ever since, there 

 would be no scarcity of seals to-day. 



Question. How many three-year-olds do you think you can get next year? 



Answer. If they were to drive all the seals on this island next year they would 

 get nothing and would only disturb and injure the rookeries. 



(By Kerick Booterin. ) Whenever any killing is allowed, if they never kill any over 

 three-year-olds, and kill only three-year-olds and under, I believe there would be no 

 injury done. 



Question. Do any of you remember the " Zapooska" of 1834? 



"Zapooska" Mr. President means a rest given to the islands. 



Answer. Yes, Booterin and Artamonov remember it well. 



Question. How many seals were killed alter the first year of that order, and how 

 were they killed ? 



Answer. The first year we killed only one hundred holluschickie, and we increased 

 the number every year afterwards. 



Question. What do you think of another " Zapooska" for today? 



Answer. (By Kerick Booterin.) When the Russians ordered their Zapooska, little 

 by little afterwards, everything grew better, and if the same thing is repeated to- 

 day, everything will grow better, and if it is not done, no seals will come here. Wo 

 observed that the men sent here by the Government since old Capt. Bryant, till we 

 saw you men and talk now with you, took no interest in the seals, but whenever 

 busy, were engaged in shooting our hogs, in fact they very seldom visited the 

 rookeries. 



Question. Did you men ever talk or attempt to talk about seal life to any of the 

 Government officers before Mr. Goif's time? 



Ansxcer. Yes, on several occasions, and they answered we did not know anything 

 about it. 



Then a little way down by Mr. Elliott 



We propose to immediately inform the Secretary of the Treasury of the exact con- 

 dition of affairs, and we know that he will take care of the seals and the jieople too. 

 That he is tbe only man who can talk, but that he sent us here to get the facts, and 

 he will act upon that information. That none of us in Washington knew of tho 

 true condition of affairs up here; until Mr. Goff wrote down last year to the Secre- 

 tary of the Treasury not a word has ever gone from here since 1870 which even 

 hinted at any danger to the seals. 



Indicating that that had been occurring which may be better imagined 

 than described. The Company Agents and the Treasury Agents prior 

 to 1889 were not telling the Government the truth as to the condition 

 of the Islands. 



