242 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



of the driving and redriving above referred to, but also in consequence of the fact, 

 that under such circumstances the remaining killables lie very close to thebreeding 

 rookeries, so that it is no longer possible to make drives without disturbing the rook- 

 eries themselves. Thus, it has occurred that, in late years, considerable and increas- 

 ing numbers of breeding females have been driven to the killing grounds with the 

 killables, though when recognized there in the process of selecting for killing, they 

 have been released. The probable special ehect of such treatment of females, as 

 well as the fact that in the disturbances caused upon the breeding rookeries, a cer- 

 tain number of the young are almost certain to be killed, have been already noted. 



Theu in paragraph 717 is the extract from the original Census Eeport, 

 and in paragraph 718 is Captain Bryant's testimony Avith regard to the 

 possible inclusion of females for killing among these driven. But if the 

 Tribunal will be good enough to take the second volume of the Appendix 

 to the British Counter Case at page 245, 1 will read the evidence of six 

 or seven of the fur merchants in the very aflidavits referred to by my 

 learned friend, Mr. Coudert. This is at paragraph 5 — Mr. Stamp. 



A noticeable feature about the consignments from the Pribilof Islands has been 

 that, while formerly the consignments were entirely composed of male skins, of late 

 years from 1883 up' to 1890 female skins have appeared among them each year in 

 increasing numbers. 



Now the question may arise as to whether or not you can tell sex very 

 accurately, but in making this affidavit Mr. Stamp could not have had 

 in his mind that there would be anything important in the particular 

 dates he mentioned; and he puts 1883, a date some seven years back, 

 which would corroborate the statement I have been making this morning 

 as to the date the driving close to the rookeries actually began. 



The President. — It does not appear that this testimony should relate 

 to seals killed on the islands. 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — Yes. 



The President. — You think it does not mean the Pribilof herd alto- 

 gether. 



Sir Richard Webster. — No that is not contended. These affidavits 

 have been referred to before. I do not wonder, after the lapse of time 

 it should, have escaped even your memory. Sir, that the skius from the 

 Pribilof Islands are distinguished from the north-west catch all through 

 by fur merchants. You will find I am accurate in that respect. Then 

 at page 246 paragraph 6: 



In inspecting consignments of Alaska skins in recent years, I have from time to 

 time noticed that the number of female skins had very much increased, and in the 

 last few years in which the 100,000 skins were taken, I personally noticed a very 

 considerable percentage of female skins. Female skins began to make their appear- 

 ance about 1883 in this catch, and have increased in numbers each year since reaching, 

 as I have said, a very considerable percentage in 1889. 



Then the next paragraph shows what I had in my mind with reference 

 to the others. 



In examining the consignments of the north-west catch, I have always noticed, 

 and during the past two years especially, an increasing number of skins which 

 showed neither spear nor shot marks, and which appear to be identical with Alaska. 



He is speaking of the sea catch as the north-west catch, and so they 

 all do. 



Then Mr. Eice at page 246, paragraph 3, says : 



Up to 1878 I never remember having seen among the Alaska catch any female skins. 

 In that year for the lirst time I noticed the appearance of a few female skins, which 

 I at once drew to the attention of the firm. In the following year there were also a 

 few of these skins, but what percentage, or Avhat number, I cannot at this distance 

 of time recall. Since that period I have always noticed amongst the Alaska catch 

 a certain percentage of skins which were female, and which percentage has slowly 

 increased, and amounted to, in my opinion (at a rough guess) in 1889 to from 10 to 15 

 per cent. 



