254 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



of tlie proposition. I desire to say that if there was a changed state of 

 circumstances after the reguhitious were in force that coukl not legally 

 alter the right of a country to say. " We must make a fresh bargain ;" 

 but I desire to point out that after this full discussion — that was the 

 very word on my lips — tliis Tribunal may be of oi^inion that it has suffi- 

 cient information to indicate that at any rate they can see so far into 

 the future as to be able to say either that the regulations are so moder- 

 ate that they will always be useful or at any rate that they ought to 

 last for a period of years: and it seems to me that if the Tribunal took 

 that view then they would or might indicate upon the face of tiie reg- 

 ulations that they ought not to be touched or interfered with or 

 denounced by either Government for a i^eriod, or not until after the 

 period of a given number of years, and then that the moral obligation, 

 as strong as the legal obligation, would be imposed upon those countries 

 for whatever time the Tribunal should indicate. I hope you will follow, 

 Mr. President — I apologize for having ventured to interrupt you — that 

 that was what was in my mind, the sequence of what I desired to put 

 before you that if the Tribunal desired to indicate that either in all 

 time or for a period of years which they thought sufficient to indicate, 

 the regulations ought to be maintained unaltered then the moral obli- 

 gation would rest on the nations as I have already said. I did not mean 

 in anyway to suggest that either country ought to do otherwise than 

 loyally act up to the award. On the other hand, I feel it my duty to 

 point out that the Tribunal itself cannot tell for certain what the effect 

 of regulations may be. It may be that the herd of seals will become 

 so numerous that they will be in such a condition as to be an injury to 

 the fishing industry of the Pacitic. It may be that the herd will not be 

 sufficiently protected for all time, and that therefore the United States 

 may ask for some further protection. According to the best of their 

 lights the Tribunal should, if I may humbly submit, deal with that 

 matter; and it is for that reason that I did not think it respectful to 

 the Tribunal to intimate whether there should be a suggestion by the 

 Tribunal that the regulations should be maintained for a limited time 

 or should be indefinite as to time. 



The President. — The point was whether it would be wise for us to 

 foresee a change in circumstances and to legislate for perpetual mainte- 

 nance of our regulations. That was the question in my mind. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Yes sir; I have one or two questions to 

 notice. 



Before any general scheme for the preservation of seal life as a whole, 

 some opinion must be formed, some mental decision must be come to as 

 to what is a proper condition of things upon the islands. It is abso- 

 lutely necessary. You may not say anything about it in your award; 

 that I have nothing to do with but in making up your mind what regu- 

 lations are necessary as a restriction upon the rights of the jielagic 

 sealer you must have formed some opinion in your mind as to what Avill 

 be the de facto exercise of rights by the United States upon the islands. 

 For instance, supposing that you were of opinion that the United States 

 were going to kill every seal within the next five or six years, as they 

 say in law they have a right to do, and I do not deny their legal right to 

 do it; supposing you were of opinion that the United States were within 

 the next five or six years going to kill every seal on the islands, there 

 would be no necessity of regulations at all. On the other hand if you 

 were of opinion that the United States were going to be moderate in 

 the exercise of their so-called rights, then the pelagic sealer, who would 

 be entirely benefitted by that moderation, ought to have his rights 



