258 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



My position, which at any rate has been made clear, is this: the Gov- 

 ernment of Her Britannic Majesty has as much at heart the welfare of 

 the seal race for the benefit of pelagic sealers as the United States can 

 have for their nationals. It is a more important interest in Canada than 

 it is to the lessees, and the few dollars that go into the Treasury of the 

 United States. 



The President. — That is what we may derive from the terms of the 

 Treaty. 



Sir Richard Webster. — And we are most anxious that a proper 

 arrangement should be made, and as I have said, and I wish to repeat. 

 Sir Julian Pauncefote expressed it over and over again, but that is 

 perfectly independent of the questions that had arisen as a matter of 

 controversy and which are, for the reasons we have submitted, to be 

 arbitrated upon by this Tribunal. 



The President. — It being admitted that both nations very sincerely 

 wish for the preservation of seal life, you will permit me, Sir Richard, to 

 ask you a question ? I heard you mention, possibly as making an admis- 

 sion, for it is the general wish of both nations, that you supposed the 

 fair average number of seals proper to disjiose of on the Islands would 

 amount to 60,000? 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — I was asked by the learned Senator to 

 make a suggestion and I believe that is the maximum. 



The President. — Will you allow me to ask — it is a theory, and we 

 can only admit this as a theory, as we are not here to make Regulations 

 inside the territorial rights of each nation, how many seals would you 

 suppose nnght, on an average, be taken by pelagic sealing every year? 



Sir Richard Webster. — You see Mr. President, that would prac- 

 tically speaking correct itself, because the character of i)elagic sealing 

 is tliat only a certain proportion, so to speak, of seals can be captured. 

 It is not possible, as was suggested by Mr. Coudert, for ships to »rowd 

 the sea and kill every possible seal. I should have thought in that 

 respect, a part from questions of discrimination, it is perfectly true that 

 pelagic sealing contains in itself a self correcting element or safety 

 valve so to say. — Thatyou cannot kill an exceptional number, but remem- 

 ber that I have assumed that the original Regulations to which I have 

 called attention are supposed to be enforced under any circumstances 

 which imposes the condition of no pelagic sealing at all in Behring Sea 

 up to the 1st July, and no pelagic sealing at any time within a fixed 

 limit, rigidly speaking, of 20 miles, which means practically 30 miles. 

 We assume those to be in force always, and I submit under the circum- 

 stances that pelagic sealing cannot practically injure the race. 



The President. — Though it may take a very large j^roportion, — as 

 we have seen in the last year — a very large amount of seals? 



Sir Richard WEBSTER.—Well that depends, Mr. President, on what 

 you mean by "proportion". If you only mean " quantity" they may 

 take a large quantity. 



The President. — I mean both. 



Sir Rkiiiard Webster. — Well, I should have doubted, with all 

 respect, if " proportion" was a correct expression. Would you define 

 first with what you would compare it? 



The President.— With the killing on the Islands. 



Sir Richard Webster. — I should have doubted if the outside num- 

 ber of seals that could be killed on the Islands under any circumstances, 

 would amount to more than something a little over 60,000. I do not 

 think, or rather I should say I submit it to you that the pelagic sealing 

 9,t sea will affect that number for this reason, that the seals taken at 



