260 ORAL ARGUMENT OP SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



90,000 and 100,000 of which about 60,000 are killed on the Islands and 

 between 30,000 and 40,000 at sea. I do not refer to the Russian side, 

 but the catch on the coast and in Behrinj^ Sea. I must not be under- 

 stood as to be gfoing back from the position that both my learned 

 Leader and I took up as to what is the function of this Tribunal under 

 Article VII. 



Senator Morgan. — Kow, Sir Richard, as to the License System pro- 

 posed here ; I wish to ask a question for information, in order to ascer- 

 tain the attitude of the Counsel for the British Government. Does this 

 system, as you propose, require that all licenses shall be taken out at 

 the particular ports, and that other i^elagic hunting is unlicensed? 



Sir Richard Webster. — So far as our nationals are concerned, it 

 would be unlawful. 



Lord Hannen, — They would have to clear from those Ports? 



Sir Richard Webster. — And be licensed to seal. Our object is to 

 be satisfied that the country gets full information, and that the vessels 

 are obliged to be under proj^er control. 



The President. — And what as to the Indians sealing on the coasts? 



Sir Richard Webster. — If I were to speak of that in the way in 

 which I think it ought to be spoken of, perhaps my learned friends 

 would get angry. 



Mr. Carter. — No, Sir Richard, please do not hesitate on that score. 



Sir Richard Webster, — I assure you I have a very great considera- 

 tion for it; but the Indians on the coast or many of them have become 

 and developed into being pelagic sealers. Several of the schooners are 

 actually owned by Indians, and to suggest that they are to be specially 

 protected, according to the philanthropic instincts of my learned friends, 

 paddling their own canoes, two at a time, and wearing the seal-skins, I 

 do not tliink contributes much to this very interesting discussion. 



Senator Morgan. — I suppose, under your system, either Great Britain 

 or the United States would have to establish a way to prevent citizens 

 of both countries from obtaining licenses as fictitious traders? 



Sir Richard Webster. — I will say a word or two on that in a 

 moment. 



Now, what have I on the other side? The burthen has rested entirely 

 on Great Britain of arguing this question of Regulations. My learned 

 friends, Mr. Phelps and Mr. Carter, in their wisdom, on behalf of the 

 great Country, one of the mightiest countries in the World, have 

 thought fit to propose to this Tribunal a Regulation which they know 

 and must know is degrading to my Country. They ask you, this Tri- 

 bunal, to say this: — Decide every issue of right against the United 

 States, the issues they themselves selected, — decide them against the 

 United States; say that British, French, German, Italian and all 

 countries are to have equal rights upon the high seas; but so far as 

 Great Britain is concerned the next moment destroy that right abso- 

 lutely and for ever over an area that never entered into the purview of 

 the United States Representative or Great Britain's Representative 

 when it was being discussed. I confess to my country it was somewhat 

 humiliating to hear the United States suggest that this was the kind 

 of thing to be enforced on Great Britain by the Award of this Tribunal. 

 Mind, Sir, you are making an Agreement for the parties; and when I 

 look at this proposal and at the attitude of the United States, the ships 

 of Great Britain and under the British flag are to be seized and taken 

 in by United States cruisers and condemned in United States courts. 



Why, it is not 20 years ago, or barely 20 years ago, wlien the United 

 States absolutely claimed that the United States flag, even if fraudu- 



