ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 269 



The President. — But according to Article VIII the Tribunal is 

 called upon to find, — 



Sir Richard Webster. — All facts submitted. 



The President, — To find questions of fact involved in certain claims 

 which would be submitted to us, but only if they are submitted to us. 

 That is why I enquired whether you, Mr. Tupper, submitted them to 

 us in such a way that we, in making our Award, are to award upon 

 them, or whether they are merely for our own private consideration? 



Mr. TuppEii. — Among the facts submitted were the two facts, owner- 

 ship and damages. They are now withdrawn and are not submitted. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Mr. Tupper put it perfectly clearly, and 

 Mr. Carter will agree with me I am sure. A number of facts mentioned 

 here, (which are not in dispute), are questions of fact which are sub- 

 mitted by Great Britain. With regard to certain other matters, desir- 

 ing to reserve fairly the rights of the United States, we have simply 

 stated, upon the face of this, certain other matters which are not sub- 

 mitted in order that it may not be said that the Tribunal have decided 

 them one way or the other. — That was all. 



The President. — What is the use of submitting to us questions of 

 fact upon which you both agree *? 



Sir Richard Webster. — Because it is desirable that there should 

 be a record of the matter. 



Senator Morgan. — We have to make an award. 



Mr. Carter. — The Tribunal of course will understand that it has 

 been no part of our purpose to supercede the judgment or action of the 

 Tribunal on these Findings. 



Sir Richard Websteb,. — Of course not. 



Mr. Carter. — Great Britain desired that certain Findings of Fact 

 should be made pursuant to the provisions of that Treaty. For that 

 puri)ose the Agent for Great Britain submitted a form of those, some 

 days ago. We objected to the Findings in that form, and proposed 

 certain Amendments to it. At a subsequent interview between us, 

 inasmuch as we were satisfied as to the tacts which were proved, and 

 which could not, in our judgment, be disputed, we agreed as to the 

 form in which this submission should be made by Great Britain — it is 

 Great Britain's submission ; not ours. But, at the same time, of course 

 it is not binding upon the Tribunal except so far as they are obliged, 

 under the terms of the Treaty, to make a Finding upon such questions 

 as are submitted. 



Lord Hannen. — The position of things seems to me to be very sim- 

 ple: the Counsel for Great Britain ask for a Finding upon certain 

 Facts. Suppose you [Mr. Carter], disputed them, you would have to go 

 into evidence ujion the subject. But instead of disputing them, you 

 admit them. Thereupon this Tribunal is in possession of the materials 

 upon which to give a Finding. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Yes. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — Or if we chose not to accept that Finding of 

 fact, we could make a Finding for ourselves. 



Lord Hannen. — Undoubtedly. 



Mr. Carter. — Undoubtedly; that is our understanding. 



Senator Morgan. — But if we accept the Finding in the form in 

 which it has been presented by agreement of Counsel, the form of the 

 proposition is, that this Arbitration has a right to decree that a certain 

 matter may be left open and negociated upon. 



Mr. Carter. — I do not so understand. 



The President. — According to the provisions of article VXII, 



