14 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR CHARLES RUSSELL, Q. C. M. P. 



So miicli as to the motives. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — It is not your point that the United 



736 States was unaware of the existence of the seals there, but that 

 they (lid not purchase specially with reieience to their value? 



Sir Charles Eussell. — Quite so. 1 do not suggest they did not 

 know fur-seals were there. I am endeavourinac to reduce to what 1 con- 

 sider to be its just proportions the character of the question that is 

 involved. 



The Pbesident. — In what you have just read, there is a phrase 

 about the American Fur seal Company which shows that the American 

 Fur-seal Company, which was refused a new lease by Eussia, had an 

 influence in the transaction of 18G0 or 1867; and that shows I think 

 that the American Government were awake to the importance of fur- 

 sealing at the moment. I do not mean to say it was the only motive, 

 of course, because there are a number of different motives which are 

 given ; but the mention of that motive shows that the fur-seal question 

 was not immaterial even at that time. 



Sir Charles Eussell. — My point is not at all that the United States 

 did not know of these Islands, or may not have thought that there was 

 some value in the fur-seal industry; it may have been considered to 

 some small and limited extent; but I am citing Mr. Sumner's speech to 

 show that he does not put that in a prominent place. I cite the Eeport 

 of the United States Committee of Ways and Means to show the same 

 thing; and, lastly, I cite the Eeport of 1876 in which these words are 

 expressly used : 



The value of those seal islands was not considered at all. Russia had derived but 

 little revenue from them, indeed a sum not sufficient to pay the contingent expenses 

 of maintaining the official authority. 



The President. — Yes. I referred to the Committee of 1868. 



Sir Charles Eussell. — I am aware you did, sir; and I was refer- 

 ring- to it also, to show that in 1808 they gave as their reasons for the 

 purchase — 



The laudable desire of citizens of the Pacihc coast to share in the prolific fisheries 

 of the oceans, seas, bays, and rivers of the western world; the refusal of Russia — 



The President. — Yes, that is the phrase; and I point it out to your 

 especial attention as indicating the influence of that company, which 

 was an American company, upon the American Government*, — that 

 they had been made aware of the importance of these fur-seal fisheries. 



Sir Charles Eussell. — I quite follow what you mean sir. I am 

 not going at this moment to be diverted from the line I am pursuing; 

 but it will be afterwards api^arent that the company there referred to 

 had much wider interests than in the fur-seal; they had trading inter- 

 ests all along the coast, and were succeeding one of the original Eus- 

 sian companies to a large extent, and from their point of view the 

 fur-seal industry was only a part, though not a very considerable part 

 of their affairs. That is all I meant to convey. 



Then, the later Committee (as will be seen on the top of page 



737 71 of the British Counter-Case), say: "The value of those seal 

 islands was not considered at all." 



The President. — Yes; that comes in much later; the other one was 

 more. contemporaneous with the transaction. 



Sir Charles Eussell. — Then, finally, on the same page 71, Mr. 

 Elliott, who is referred to very often by some of the witnesses called 

 on the part of the United States as the sole authority upon the subject 



• But see page 741-2. 



