ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR CHARLES RUSSELL, Q. C. M. P. 145 



My learned fii(3ud did not read this; probably he accideutally over- 

 looked it — 



the principle that beyond 59° 30' no foreign vessel can approach her coasts and her 

 islands, nor fish nor hunt within the distance of two marine leagues. 



My learned friend did not read that passage. 



Mr. Carter, — I think I did. 



Sir Charles Russell. — No, I think not; indeed, I am sure not, 

 because I noted it at the time. The asseition amounts to this: 



The interpretation we put upon it is the interpretation the Commer- 

 cial Company have been putting upon it, and we i)ropose this alteration; 

 not to insist on the 100 niiles, but we sliall be content with two marine 

 leagues, tiiat is to say, keep outside the territorial waters, only let us 

 extend the territorial waters not to one but to two marine leagues. 

 893 Senator Morgan. — That is the first time I think I have heard 



in any paper of the distinction drawn between fishing a)id hunt- 

 ing, that is, two marine leagues from land; what could they hunt two 

 marine leagues from land? 



Sir Charles Russell. — I suppose, though I do not defend the accu- 

 racy of the language of Baron Tuyl — I suppose that you might say, not 

 improperly, that you hunted a whale, that you hunted a sea-otter, or 

 that you hunted a fur seal. 



Senator Morgan. — 1 mean, you would not say that you hunted for 

 halibut or codtish. 



Sir Charles Russell. — Ko; I should say you fish for them, but 

 you, sir, are quite as good a judge of language in that respect as 1 or 

 anybody else. 



Senator Morgan. — I mean, it is a point on the construction of the 

 Treaty, that there was a distinction made between hunting and fishing, 

 and tluit the right reserved by Russia, or ratlier, the United States, of 

 whaling and other fisheries did not include ijerh.ips the right to hunt 

 seals, or to hunt sea otters. 



Sir Charles Russell. — My respectful answer to that would be, Sir, 

 Where is there a trace of such a reservation ? 



Senator Morgan. — I mean, if there is such a thing. 



Sir Charles Russell. — There is nothing. Let me call the attention 

 of the learned Arbitrator to the fact that in the Ukase or in the Charter 

 under the Ukase, which refers to any special kind of fishing or of hunt- 

 ing, the expression is : " The pursuits of commerce, whaling, and fisherj^, 

 and of all other industry", and so on, — that is what is asserted. I 

 would submit this point to the learned Senator: if the Company Avere 

 to get the right of hunting fur seals exclusively within 100 miles of the 

 coast, it was to get it under this Ukase, or under the Charter, or not 

 at all. Under the Charter it enjoys the privilege of hunting and fish- 

 ing to the exclusion of all other Russian or foreign subjects throughout 

 the tenitories long since in the possessi(m of Russia. 



Senator Morgan. — Will you allow me for one moment? They have 

 the ])rivilege of hunting and fishing mentioned; but the question is 

 whether they gave up in the Treaty of 1824 and of 1825 the right of 

 hunting and fishing, or only the fishing'? 



Sir Charles Russell. — With great deference, I think the fallacy, 

 if I may say so, is that the word is primarily applied to the hunting of 

 animals of hmd, and the Company, under this Charter, had great ])rivi- 

 leges, admittedly within the i)owerof the Russian Em])eror to grant, of 

 hunting on that land aiul over large tracts of land. That is not touched, 

 and the Treaty is silent upon any question of grant of Russian terri- 

 B S, PT XIII 10 



