158 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR CHARLES RUSSELL, Q. C. M. R 



Treaty was signed and ratified, I think, in April of 1824 — the 17th of 

 April, 1824. 



Mr. Carter. — It was signed, but where is the evidence that it was 

 ratified? 



Sir Charles Russell. — We will follow it up, if it be material. It 

 does not seem to me to be of much importance, one way or the other. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — I only asked because you seemed to be 

 expounding this letter of October 25th 1824. I gather from the minute 

 in Mr. Adams' diary that when his conversation occurred with Baron 

 de Tuyll, the Treaty had not then been ratified. 



Sir Charles Kussell. — Certainly Judge; so do I, also. But let me 

 explain what the position of things is. We will get the dates right, and 

 put them before you at our next meeting. But we can discuss the point 

 wholly apart from dates. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — Yes. 



Sir Charles Russell. — What appears is this : After the Treaty had 

 been agreed ui)on and signed, but before its ratification. Baron de Tuyll 

 sought to have it modified in the sense set out in Mr. Adams' diary. 

 Mr. Adams' answer was: "The Treaty is the Treaty; that must speak 

 for itself." At the same time, or at a later i)eriod, it may be, they were 

 endeavouring to get the same limitation into the English treaty. What 

 was that limitation? It was this: 



It is not the intention of Russia to impede the free navigation of the Pacific Ocean. 

 She would be satisfied with causing to be recognized, as well understood and placed 

 beyond all manner of doubt, the principle that beyond 59 degrees 30 minutes no 

 foreign vessel can approach her coasts and her islands, nor fish nor hunt within the 

 distance of two marine leagues. 



That is to say, beyond 59 degrees 30 minutes. 



Accordingly, when Count Lieven and Mr. George Canning are dis- 

 cussing the matter. Count Lieven seeks to have introduced into the 

 English Treaty, a limitation of that right of approaching creeks and 

 interior seas, to 59 degrees 30 minutes. I hope you follow me, Judge. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — I do. 



Sir Charles Russell. — In other words, the ten-year clause 



909 is limited to 50° 30', and not further north, and accordingly, if you 



will turn to page 69 of the 2nd Volume of the Appendix to the 



British Case, you will see that in their Contre-Projet, article III, it is 



proposed : 



That as to the possessions of the two Powers, designated in the preceding articles, 

 namely, to 59° 30' minutes of north latitude, but not farther, the respective vessels 

 and those of their subjects shall, for ten years, from the 5 (17) April, 1824, have the 

 reciprocal right of frequenting freely the gulfs, harbours, creeks, etc. 



Mr. Canning then gets the newspaper description of the American 

 Treaty. Thereupon he writes to Count Lieven, in effect: ''You have 

 been pressing me to agree to a limitation of the right to frequent inte- 

 rior creeks, seas, etc., to the point of 59° 30', and no farther north, aud 

 you have been urging that upon me because you say that is the Ameri- 

 can Treaty. I now send you enclosed an account of the American 

 Treaty",— and he winds up his letter: 



No limitations here of 59°. 



On pages 71 and 72 is the passage which is enclosed : 



Extracts from the National Intelligencer, of August 3, 1S24. 



Convention with Russia. — Mr. Lucius Bull, who arrived in this city a few days 

 ago, was the bearer of despatches from our Minister at St. Petersburgh. By these 

 it appears that a Convention was concluded on the 5th (17th) April last between 



