352 ORAL VRGUMENT OF SIK CHARLES RUSSELL, Q. C. M. P. 



by an exchange of notes, the British Government, representing Can- 

 ada, and the United States have now arranged to discuss a proposal 

 for dealing with the mackerel fishery, if necessary, outside the 3-mile 

 limit of the difterent countries. 



Senator MorCtAN. — I wish to enquire if the basis of that Agreement 

 was not the fact that this method of purse seining was an injury to 

 young mackerel. 



Mr. TuppER. — Yes, destroying them in great quantities. 



General Foster. — As T x)articipated with Mr. Tupi^er in that nego- 

 tiation I may refresh his memory in regard to it. I understand that a 

 commission of experts has been appointed by the two Governments to 

 settle the whole question of the fishing interests of the two countries 

 in the adjacent waters, no mention being made of mackerel fishing or 

 purse-seining whatever, according to my recollection. It covers the 

 whole question of the fisheries. 



Mr. Tupper. — Well we differ upon that and we can produce the cor- 

 respondence if necessary. 

 1142 Sir Charles Kussell. — At all events Mr. Tupper thinks not 

 and whether it is, or is not, it is wholly immaterial. It is a very 

 good illustration of what I referred to several days ago of where, for 

 instance, trawling is found to interfere with sealing on the ground that it 

 involves the loss of small fishes, nations have come by conventions 

 (where the law cannot help one or the other) to mutual arrangements for 

 the protection of their respective interests. It is a very good illustration, 

 and all the better if Mr. Foster is correct in saying it is not limited to 

 mackerel fishing, but has a wider and more general api)lication. The 

 illustration becomes for that reason the stronger and not the weaker. 



Lord Hannen. — I see from the i>assage cited from the Canadian 

 Statute that they catch the seals there with nets. 



Sir Charles Eussell. — Yes apparently my Lord, and I believe the 

 British Commissioners' Eeport further suggests that nets should be 

 disused, and I think some time ago the question was asked by Lord 

 Hannen why it was that nets were given up. I have since asked for 

 the explanation, and the reason is that the nets frequently include very 

 young seals as well as seals which are the object of capture, and very 

 often result in the life of the younger seals being lost, and that is the 

 reason why the Commissioners recommended its disuse. 



I have said all that I need say about Canada. Now about New- 

 foundland. The observations on the part of the United States will be 

 found at page 444, and it is also referred to at page 1G8 of the American 

 Argument. 



d) That BO seals shall be killed in the seal-fishing ground l;s ing off the island at 

 any period of the year, except between March 14 and April 20, inclusive, and lliat 

 no seal so caught shall be brought ■within the liruits of the Colony, under a penalty 

 of $4,000 in either instance. 



(2) That no steamer shall leave any port of the Colony for the seal fisheries before 

 six o'clock a. m. on March 12, under a penalty of $5,000, 



(3) That no steamer shall proceed to the seal fisheries a second time in auj' one 

 year unless obliged to return to port by accident. 



This act extends and enlarges the scope of a previous act, dated P^ebriiary 22, 1879, 

 which contained similar provisions, but with smaller penalties, and also the pro- 

 A'ision which is still in force, that no seal shall be caught of less weight than 28 

 pounds. 



That is the statement in the United States Argument, and it will be 

 observed, to begin with, that there is no allegation there that that 

 applies to foreigners at all. 



