462 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



require, cousiders it couformable to the above cited Article of tLe Instruction that 

 besides the patint autliorizing the hoisting of the Russian flajj' by merchant ships in 

 general, the said vessel of the Company should be provided with this special patent 

 to secure her against the visit of the cruizers of the contracting parties. 



Mr. President, is it reasonable to suggest tliat in tlie patent given to 

 these vessels, Northwest Coast there meant between 60° and 54° 40"? 

 Is it not i^erfeetly obvious that they were referring there to the whole 

 length of the Northwest Coast of America from 54° 40', as far as the 

 Eussian dominions extended, and I call your attention, and you will see 

 the reference upon the same i)age, to this, that in the year 1843, that 

 Treaty having been made in the year 1841, the Treaty of 1825 was 

 renewed in these words : 



It is understood that in regard to commerce and navigation in the Russian posses- 

 sions on the Northwest Coast of America, the convention concluded at St. Peters- 

 burgh on the 16th February, 1825, continues in force. 



Would anybody suggest that only means the portion of the Northwest 

 Coast to which my learned friend, Mr. Carter, asks you to attribute the 

 limited meaning to which I have referred. 



Senator Morgan. — My suggestion, Sir Richard, was in reference to 

 the question whether it included the hunting of animals that were fur- 

 bearing. 



Sir Richard Webster. — I quite follow you, Sir. As I have said 

 more than once, I never relied upon these Treaties as a grant at all. I 

 have always relied upon them as an undertaking by Russia not to inter- 

 fere, but it does not touch the point you referred to when you suggested 

 what must be found in the Treaties. Then the Treaty of the 12th of 

 January 1859, between Great Britain and Russia, Article XIX, says. 



In regard to commerce and navigation in the Russian possessions on the North 

 West Coast of America, the Convention concluded at St. Petersburgh on the 16th 

 (28th) February, 1825, shall continue in force. 



Mr. President, you are infinitely better acquainted with diplomatic 

 matters, even after the study that I have had with regard to this case, 

 than I could ever hope to be; but it does seem a strong thing to suggest 

 that North West Coast, in these renewed Treaties, did not refer to the 

 whole North West Coast from 54° 40', the power of settlement becom- 

 ing more and more probable, yet according to my learned friends' con- 

 tention the North West Coast is used in a different sense in these 

 Treaties, and the phrase "North West Coast", as invented by Mr. Blaine 

 finds no place in the history of these matters. 



If one could use the expression with reference to this matter as mak- 

 ing a thing plainer which in my submission is perfectly plain. I would 

 ask you to turn to pages 63 and 64 of the Counter Case where there 

 appears again that which we submit, is utterly inconsistent with the 

 narrow use of "north-west coast" contended for. In 1799 the Russian 

 American Company got on the American side from Behring Straits to 

 latitude 55°; it is sufficient for my purpose to deal with the American 

 side; the Asiatic side did not vary. In 1799 the Russian Company got 

 in terms the monopoly from Behring Straits down to latitude 55°. In 

 1821, just seven days after the Ukase, they got from Behring Straits 

 down to latitude 51; that is to say Russia attempted to push the south- 

 ern boundary lower than 55°. In 1829, after the Treaty — and now I will 

 ask you to refer to page 61 — you will find the reference to the 1821 

 charter at the bottom of that page: 



The privilege of hunting and fishing to the exclusion of all other Eussian or foreign 

 subjects throughout the territories long since in the possession of Russia on the coasts 

 of North-west America, beginning at the northern point of the island of Vancouver, 

 in latitude 51*^ north, and extending to Behring Strait and beyond. . . 



