ORAL AEGUMENT OP SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 471 



of the word ; because no act of interference with the rights of Great 

 Britain upon the high seas from the beginning to the end of this chap- 

 ter has been indicated. 



The President. — You mean to say that Russia did not attempt to 

 interfere before the Treaty of 1825'? 



Sir Richard Webster. — Or after, Sir. 



The President. — The period after that time was regulated by the 

 Treaty. 



Sir Richard Webster. — That is my point, Sir. T pointed out 

 that the Treaties gave Russia no exchisive jnrisdiction on the high 

 seas in Behring Sea; and therefore I point out that there can be no 

 recognition or concession by Great Britain of any exclusive jurisdic- 

 tion by Russia on the high seas, either in respect to the seal fishery or 

 anything else; because from the beginning to the end of the chapter 

 there is no assertion by Russia followed up by exercise of anything 

 which Great Britain has conceded at all. 



The President. — I admit that is true since 1825, since the Treaty; 

 but before the Treaty, would it be equally true? 



Sir Richard Webster. — Equally true. They do not suggest any 

 act of interference before 1821, excluding the paper Ukase. 



The President. — Do you not believe that the Ukase of 1821 was 

 the original cause of the Treaty of 1825? 



Sir Richard Webster. — I think it was absolutely the cause. The 

 treaties were a disclaimer by Russia of the Ukase — a disclaimer at the 

 instance of Great Britain. 



Lord Hannen. — What you say is that though Russia may have 

 asserted some rights she never exercised them? 



Sir Richard Webster. — And Great Britain never recognized them. 

 I have passed for the moment. Lord Hannen, from exercise to recog- 

 nition and concession. 



Lord Hannen. — I know you have. 



Sir Richard Webster. — And I was pointing out that the paper 

 Ukase was protested against by Great Britain and was withdrawn at 

 the instance of Great Britain. 



The President. — But this paper Ukase which was in force from 1821 

 to 1825 was an attempt at exercise. 



Sir Richard Webster. — It depends upon Avhat you call in force. 

 Writing a piece of paper which is never acted upon is not putting a 

 thing in force. The correspondence to which attention has been called 

 by my learned friend Sir Charles Russell, shows that from the very 

 earliest time instructions were sent to the Russian cruisers not to act 

 upon the Ukase. I do not want to go into that further because I think 

 it is in your mind. You remember, Sir, that it was stated — Sir Charles 

 Russell read it more than once, I know — that the Ukase is practically 

 suspended; that is to say from 1821. That is Mr. George Canning's 

 letter. 



The President. — That is what you call no exercise. 



Sir Richard Webster. — No exercise. 



The President, — Perhaps it would be better to call it no assertion. 



Sir Richard Webster. — I was not referring to assertion; there is 

 I submit no meaning in recognition and concession of an assertion. 

 You recognize and concede the right. Of course you recognize that the 

 assertion has been made. A man says, "I possess those fields." Of 

 course you recognize his assertion the moment it is made; but. . , 



The President. — I did not say that England recognized it; but per- 

 haps a refusal of recognizing clashed with a pre-existing state of right 

 or of assertion. 



