ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 485 



statement that, as Mr. Palmer says, 'little stress was laid upon the fact that fur-seals 

 were found in abundance' at the time of the purchase of the Territory by the United 

 States. No stress conhl reasonably have been laid upon it, since 100,000 seals would 

 at that time have been worth only some 12,500 dollars, which would hardly have paid 

 for the trouble of taking them. Of course, almost immediately afterwards this was 

 no longer true. 



Now, Sir, I said yesterday, and I venture to repeat the observation 

 to-day, this is a Tribunal in wliicli, although the rules of evidence are 

 properly extremely free, liberal and lax, yet still the assertion of Coun- 

 sel, the assertion of Agents in the case, go for nothing unless there 

 is evidence to support thein; and I submit to this Tribunal that it is 

 not iu any way proved, — not only is it not proved, but I have shown 

 evidence before this Tribunal which, speaking of contemporary utter- 

 ances, — speaking of contemporary documents, — shows that the United 

 States did not in any way regard either the Pribilof Islands or the 

 fur-industry as bearing upon the question of price which they were 

 willing to pay. 



The President. — Perhaps, in reference to this last quotation from 

 Dr. Dall, do you not think that perhaps the low price paid for fur-seal 

 skins would have been owing to the circumstance that fur-seals were 

 not yet hunted in that time, and that sea-otters were more likely to 

 have been hunted? 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — I think that is highly probable. 



The President. — And those had but a small value. 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — It strengthens my remark. I am not on 

 the question of what the cause wns; I am on the question of fact, that 

 the allegation that the United States were being hardly dealt with 

 because they paid for this a high price, is unfounded on the facts of 

 history, and upon the facts which are before the Court. Now, let me 

 pass from that. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — Did not Mr, Sumner in his speech refer to the 

 immense number of fur-seals? 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — I should like to be allowed to answer that. 

 I did not mean to refer to it because it would certainly, to an extent, 

 tresi)ass upon what I may call contentious matter, — certainly not in the 

 sense of enhancing the value of the purchase; but, as I am challenged, 

 I will read the passage. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — I do not mean to challenge you. Sir Richard. 



Sir Richard Webster. — I beg Judge Harlan's pardon; I did not 

 mean in that sense. 



Mr. Justice Harlan. — I think the passage has been read once; and 

 it is not worth while to read it again, unless you want it. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Tlje passage to which I was going to refer 

 has not been read. I really should not have troubled about it, but that 

 you were good enough to indicate to me that perhaps my statement 

 might be a little too wide. I do not think it is at all. 



The summary of the advantages which is referred to in the citation of 

 Mr. Elliott which I did not read (at page 70 of tlie British Counter 

 Case), is to be found at page 88 of volume 1 of the Appendix to the 

 British Case; and it really does rather point the strength of my obser- 

 vation, although I can assure the learned Judge I did not mean to 

 refer to it again. I had quite suflicient else to say, and I should not 

 have referred to it, but for his calling my attention to it. Mr Sumner 

 had given a very long and elaborate description of all tlie various 

 industries. He had referred among others (as the learned Judge has 

 reminded me), to the capture of seals, of sea-otter, and of other fur- 



