ORAL ARGUMENT OP SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 487 



Senator Morgan. — I am asking this question for information — does 

 the evidence anywhere show that, at the time, a fishery of any descrip- 

 tion — either a whale fishery or what we call a fur seal fishery had been 

 established in Behring- Sea — a cod fishery or halibut fishery? 



Sir KiCHARD Webster. — According to my recollection of the evi- 

 dence I do not think fisheries had been established, but large quantities 

 of cod and halibut had been caught. 



Senator Morgan.— In Behring Sea? 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — lu Behring Sea, but not a fishery estab- 

 lished in that sense that I know of— vessels going tliere to fish. 



I know of persons catching in Behring Sea largo quantities of cod 

 and large quantities of cod close to the Pribilof Islands — that is a 

 matter which I will call attention to when I come to address the Tri- 

 bunal on the matter of Regulations, but it is nothing to do with my 

 particular point. I believe. Senator as far as my ])resent knowledge 

 goes — I speak subject to correction — there is no evidence of the estab- 

 lishment of what I may call regular trading fisheries of either cod or 

 halibut, in the waters in question. 



The President. — You are not aware of any fishermen having claimed 

 against the existence of these fish-devouring animals, the seals? 



Sir Richard Webster. — I do not think, beyond the objection made 

 by the Board of Trade of the town, and the important town to which 

 we directed and were happy enough to be enabled to direct the atten- 

 tion of Mr. Phelps, — beyond that particular reference to the town of 

 Port Townsend — 



Mr. Phelps.— Port Townsend. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Port Townsend — I will not attempt to fol- 

 low it up, because Mr. Justice Harlan did not want in any way to do 

 otherwise than to see that my argument was not stated in too strong 

 language, but certainly the reference to furs in page 77 speaks of them 

 as having, "at times vied with minerals in value, although the supply 

 is more limited and less permanent". I cannot help thinking it was a 

 very doubtful element of value — certainly it was not represented an ele- 

 ment of value in any document that I am aware of. 



Now Mr. President, I cannot forbear reminding you, once more, of 

 the position that the committee took up in the year 1888 following out 

 the line which was then the case of the United States, namely, that it 

 was taken for granted that by the purchase of Alaska the United States 

 would acquire exclusive ownership and jurisdiction over Behring Sea. 

 Had they any warrant for saying that was taken for granted? Would 

 the Tribunal kindly oblige me by looking at page 100 of the British 

 Case where, at the very first inception of this matter, before we knew 

 anything that the United States would say except what appeared in 

 the diplomatic correspondence, we pointed out the impossibility of con- 

 tending that the waters of the Behring Sea were mare claiisum; and 

 strangely enough to a certain extent, although not directly, it answers 

 Senator Morgan. Mr. Sumner referring to whale fishery said: 



The narwhale with his two long tusks of ivory, out of which was made the famous 

 throne of the early Danish kings, belongs to the Frozen Ocean ; but he, too, strays into 

 the straits below. As no sea is now mare clausnm, all these may be pursued by a ship 

 under any flag, except directly on the coast and within its territorial limit. And yet 

 it seems as if the possession of this coast as a commercial base necessarily give toits 

 people peculiar advantages in this pursuit. 



Perfectly true, Mr. President, as was pointed out in connection with 

 the subject by my learned leader, the Attorney General, when he was 

 pointing out that it was because the possession of the coast iu prox- 



