ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 501 



The Tribunal thereupon adjourned for a short time. 



The President. — Sir Richard, we are ready to hear you. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Mr. President, by an accident, and a very 

 fortunate accident, I am able to answer, before I resume my argument 

 Senator Morgan's question. Mr. Piggott (who was legal adviser to the 

 Japanese Cabinet), happens to be here, and he happens to be able to 

 give me, from his own knowledge, the references to the document that 

 we happen to have in Hertslet, here, with reference to the action that 

 Senator Morgan called attention to, in the year 1855. I am referring 

 to Hertslet, Vol. X, p. 408. The actual convention is not set out — it is 

 in an earlier volume — but in the year 1855 a convention was made 

 between Great Britain and the Emperor of Japan which gave Great 

 Britain the right to navigate a certain internal or inland sea — the one 

 referred to by Senator Morgan, which I believe was, at one place, only 

 a mile and three quarters or two miles wide — or something of that sort. 



Senator Morgan. — It is not a Sea — it is the Straits of Sliimonoseki. 



Sir Richard Webster. — I merely used the expression "inland sea", 

 because it will be found to be used in the original convention; but it 

 makes no difference. 



Lord Hannen. — It is a passage from one large ocean to another. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Yes. The Japanese name is "Inland Sea". 



The President. — Was that confined, to England, or did it include 

 France and the United States? 



Sir Richard Webster. — I think, if I remember rightly, the United 

 States subsequently joined in it. 



Senator Morgan. — You mean in the Treaty? 



Sir Richard Webster. —There are fourteen powers. 



Senator Morgan. — We had no part in the Treaty. 



Sir Richard Webster. — I will not say in the Treaty — I think it 

 will turn out that the United States got (either by Treaty or by some 

 other arrangement), the benefit of it; but for the purpose that I am 

 dealing with it at the present moment, it makes no difference. 



The President. — In 1865 was it? 



Sir Richard Webster. — 1855. 



The President. — That was the date of the Crimean war, and very 

 likely concerned the English and French fleets. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Mr. Piggott tells me there were fifteen or 

 sixteen Powers that had the same rights, and I thought that probably 

 the United States were among them. 



The Presiden r.— The same rights by Convention, of course? 



Sir Richard Webster. — Do not let that be taken from me, if the 

 Senator says the United States had not. 



Senator Morgan. — I do not think they had— not to my recollection. 



Sir Richard Webster. — If the Senator says they had not, I will 

 look it up; but from the point of view he was putting to me, it makes 

 no difference. 



Senator Morgan. — Not at all. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Certain Powers, among others Great 

 Britain, had got these rights by Treaty. In 1804 a Prince of the name 

 of Choshiu— (I am referring now to the 12th volume of Hertslet p. 

 1145) — appears to have rebelled against the then Government of Japan 

 and objected to this right of passage being exercised by foreigners, 

 and, I believe, actually interfered with British ships in the course of 

 their navigation, whereupon Great Britain, in conjunction with the 

 United States, and with some other Powers, made an arrangement for 

 coercive measures which they should take to restrain the rebellious 



