520 ORAL ARGUMENT OF SIR RICHARD WEBSTER, Q. C. M. P. 



featlieied, furred, or scaled (tlie coating makes no difference) that, by- 

 its instinctive cliaracteristics, surrenders itself in regard to its power 

 of escape to the same extent as the fur-seal does on tlie land? 



Sir liiCHARD Webster. — That entirely depends on what you mean, 

 Senator Morgan, by "surrenders itself". When I come to that part of 

 the case, what I am going to suggest to you is, except people get round 

 and frighten it, it never surrenders itself at all. May I tell j^ou an 

 exact case that seems in iDoint? One of the most interesting birds on 

 the coast of Scotland is the Solan Goose, which is a very beautiful 

 bird that breeds, so far as I know, in two or three places only, and one 

 of those places is off the Orkneys, 100 miles out, — there are two Rocks, 

 called the "Stack" and the "Skerries", out in the Atlantic; and people 

 go to take a certain number of eggs, and the hen-birds, the wildest 

 known, will sit on their nests, so that you can hit them w ith a stick as 

 you pass by. 



1 have known people who have done it, they will hiss at you, and 

 these wild birds, while sitting on their nests will allow you to knock 

 them on the head, if you like. 



Senator Morgan. — Then, as to the male bird? 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — Well, he would not be much use without 

 the hen. 



Senator Morgan. — So that, if you kill the males and not the hens, 

 there will not be much progress in killing. 



Sir EiCHARD Webster. — The male bird would fly away; and, if 

 you attempted to drive the bull-seals away, you would not have mucli 

 progress then. 



Senator Morgan. — But they do not seem to escape at all. 



Sir Richard Webster. — I cannot tell what is in your mind as to 

 the habits of these seals — I shall have to trouble you some other day 

 with regard to that; but that I should not be thought to have ray 

 answer ready, I submit what happens with regard to these seals is, that 

 they are frightened and from fear and fear alone are made and not 

 induced (in the ordinary sense of the word) to travel long distances out 

 of what I shall call their natural element are reduced into a condition 

 where they suffer immensely, and being in that condition from which 

 they cannot escape, they are then killed, and if that is surrendering 

 themselves — supposing that is what you mean by it — I have not a 

 word to say. 



Senator Morgan. — I never heard that seals were so frightened as to 

 haul out of the sea on to the shore. 



Sir Richard Webster. — No, but you were good enough, as I under- 

 stand, to put it to me that they surrender themselves so that they could 

 be dealt with by man. 



Senator Morgan. — I do not mean by a voluntary act, but by an 

 instinct from which they cannot escape. 



Sir Richard Webster. — Of course, you have more knowledge than 

 I have of this, but I do not suppose a three or four year old seal, when 

 he comes out for the first time, knows that he is going to be driven, 

 I venture to think that if a seal comes out upon the island, he has no 

 idea he is going to have boys to shout round and drive him up till he is 

 in the condition to which I will call attention some day or other, and 

 then to receive the final blow. 



Senator Morgan. — And I have no idea that he would have any such 

 expectation, but if he had, I think he would come out any way. 



